Episode 206
A Conversation with Leah Rampy and Reconnecting Earth and Soul amid Climate Chaos
Episode Summary: today we are joined by Leah Rampy to discuss her book Earth and Soul: Reconnecting Amid Climate Chaos, a project rooted in her lifelong connection to the living world. Leah shares how her book draws from her extensive experience in understanding climate change, biodiversity loss, and leading retreats and pilgrimages that invite deeper ecological connections.
Leah shares her journey from corporate roles to advocating for environmental stewardship through initiatives like "Save Our Soil," while addressing the dangers of "othering" and promoting a kin-centric view of nature, leading with the heart, and embracing the grief and joy of climate change.
Highlights include:
- The inspiration and journey behind Leah’s book Earth and Soul.
- The grassroots movement “Save Our Soil” and its focus on local regenerative farming and habitat creation.
- Leah’s transition from a corporate career to environmental and spiritual work.
- The principles of somatic leadership and how they can apply to environmental advocacy.
- Balancing grief and joy in the face of climate change and the importance of ritual and community in navigating these emotions.
- The concept of kin-centric ecology and the practice of reweaving our relationships with the natural world.
- The value of local pilgrimages and connecting deeply with the nearby environment.
About Leah Rampy: Leah is the author of Earth and Soul: Reconnecting Amid Climate Chaos. Leah is a writer, retreat leader, and educator who blends ecology and spirituality through personal stories and practices to help others deepen their relationship with the natural world. With a Ph.D. in curriculum from Indiana University, Leah currently lives with her husband in a co-housing community in Shepherdstown, West Virginia.
To connect with Leah, visit https://www.leahmoranrampy.com/.
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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Brian Tormey, and Jenn Swanson.
Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert, and podcaster from Paris, France.
Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US.
From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer, and community Connector, helping people help themselves.
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.
Transcript
Hi, I'm Christina.
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:I'm from Prague.
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:Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.
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:Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.
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:Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.
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:Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.
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:Welcome
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:to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with
carbon conversations for every day, with
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:everyone, from everywhere in the world.
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:In our conversations, we share ideas,
perspectives, questions, and things we
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:can actually do to make a difference.
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:So don't be shy and join our Carbon
Sessions, because it's not too late.
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:Hi, I'm Brian.
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:Hi, I'm Liki.
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:Hi, I'm Jen.
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:And today we are very excited to have
Rampe, who is the author of a book
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:called Earth and Soul Reconnecting.
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:Amid climate chaos.
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:And Leah's a writer, a retreat leader,
an educator who weaves ecology and
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:spirituality, personal stories and
practices to help others deepen their
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:relationship to the natural world.
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:And she's got a PhD in curriculum
from Indiana University.
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:And she lives with her husband in a
co housing community in, and I'm not
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:going to say this right, Shepherdstown?
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:Did I say that?
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:You said that right.
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:Yes.
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:And, uh, and they have, uh, the
Rampys have two adult children.
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:And so Leah, we are delighted
to welcome you to this podcast.
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:And I want to start off by
asking you, um, when, when was
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:this book brewing inside you?
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:first of all, let me say I'm really
happy to be here because I've been
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:happy to follow you all for a while.
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:So it's a pleasure to, to join you
and to get to see you on the screen.
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:Uh, the book, um, probably is fair to
say it's a lifetime of brewing because
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:I have tried in the book to go back
and connect to some of my earlier
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:experiences and to remember what it
was like to feel so deeply connected.
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:To the living world.
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:The sort of more pragmatic answer to
that is I've been actually doing the
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:writing for a couple of years, informed
by work that I've done in trying to
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:understand climate change, biodiversity
loss, species extinction, and also
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:work that I've been doing, leading
retreats, pilgrimages, and so on, and
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:inviting people to connect more deeply.
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:with the living world.
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:So that those have all shaped and formed,
um, a desire to write on this topic.
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:And it's really been the last two years
that have been, okay, time to do it.
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:And the book is out now
or it's just coming?
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:It's out.
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:It was out in February.
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:Oh, fantastic.
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:Fantastic.
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:Great.
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:All right.
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:Anybody have a question
they want to jump in with?
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:I'm happy to go first.
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:Um, so Leah, I, you know, there's
a lot of questions I have for you.
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:Um, I'm going to go first a little bit off
book topic and ask you to share a little
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:bit about sort of the soil culture, the
work you're doing there in West Virginia,
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:which is, which I think is its own sort of
like background context for your writing.
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:To me, it seems like.
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:Well, yes, it is.
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:Thanks for asking that because it's
something I really enjoy talking about.
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:I should be clear that this is not a
topic that I'm an expert in, uh, soil
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:health, but it is one that I've read
a lot about and I'm really interested
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:in and excited about when I first
moved into this co housing community.
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:Of course, it was easy to connect with
people who had, uh, similar interests.
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:And one of those was
around climate change.
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:We talked a long time about what we might
do to help our small community and our
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:region attend more to climate change.
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:And we kind of took the side tour,
thanks to some of the work that we were
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:doing and taking classes from Kiss the
Ground, to say, let's just focus on soil.
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:And so we, we created this
little grassroots movement.
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:Not very good name for soil, but
we created this volunteer group,
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:I'll say, uh, called Save Our Soil.
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:And our intention is to support local
regenerative farms, to encourage buying,
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:eating, growing food locally, composting.
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:And then we have a program called Lawns
to Life, where we encourage people to
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:exchange their lawn for habitat, for the.
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:Native species, and we also, of course,
there's some food for us into that
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:mix as well, and we do presentations
and invite people to come to our
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:community because this is something
that we practice in our own little
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:spaces outside our door, but also in a
community garden and in a conservation
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:area that's around our community.
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:I'm curious that there's been, I've
been sort of in a number of discussions
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:recently around this, this sort
of like lawns back to life kind of
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:topic of planting native grasses.
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:Can you I feel like we've got listeners
in all corners of the globe, but lawns are
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:pretty common in many of those corners.
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:Can you dig into that part a little
bit more and, and share a little
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:bit like, what does that mean?
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:Well, you know, we're one of, we're a
culture that seems to think that the
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:more you, uh, create a grassy area in
front of your home, the more status
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:or the more beauty that that creates.
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:And I think for many of us, that
was kind of drilled into us that
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:you had to keep the lawn nice and
neat and goodness knows it couldn't
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:be more than a few inches tall.
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:And certainly homeowner associations
have that as a as a rule.
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:Oftentimes, and if it's not a rule,
it's kind of a standard and people
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:frown upon neighbors who would let
their, their lawns go wild, takes a lot
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:of water, takes a lot of fertilizer.
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:Most of the grasses we grow are
non native, so they're feeding
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:no one, including the soil.
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:So the, the hope, the intention
is to say there are so many native
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:species that are desperate for
food, why can't we help them out?
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:Well, and it's, and I'll say this, our,
our local library here did this recently.
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:They took sort of a, an addition, a
big space of the acreage and sort of
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:intentionally took what had been lawn
and, and recreated it and it, and
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:they put, they installed a walking
path in and now they, the only trim
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:and mow the walking path and the rest
of it is all just native acreage.
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:very much.
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:Um, now newly planted native
grasses and it's just lovely.
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:Like it's just this one, I grew up,
uh, you know, as a cattle rancher out
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:in Oregon where that's what we had.
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:We just had native grass, you know,
we just had these huge fields that as
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:we rotated the cattle around, they,
you know, they left behind and then
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:it grew up and then we went cattle
into what was like a big meadow and
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:it was just, we didn't plant seeds.
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:We didn't do it.
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:It was just whatever was
growing there, right.
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:Sort of natively for a long time.
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:And to be able to go walk through like
sort of these like native meadow spaces
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:is it's all a really lovely experience.
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:Um, so thanks for helping lead that.
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:Um.
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:Wow.
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:Yeah.
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:Thank you.
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:Yeah.
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:I, I may take us now like an
entirely different direction.
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:Um, but one of my other questions,
you, you've got some of your own
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:professional roots are in some pretty
large corporations like American Express
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:and Fannie Mae and sort of like, you
Very large, I don't know what fortune
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:100, probably maybe fortune 500, but
you know, very large corporation.
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:And I'm curious as you know, we're sort
of going through this place where we
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:recognize that companies need to be
some of the thought leaders in making
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:change patterns and supporting process
pattern changes all the way down through
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:their operations in so many ways, like.
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:What was, what was it like being inside
those companies and any thoughts and
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:guidance to other people who are working
in large, in both big companies and
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:small as, as to how they can think
about bringing some of this connectivity
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:that you talk about in your book?
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:Into experiences inside their company.
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:Yeah, I think that's a,
that's a bit of a tricky one.
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:And I want to be honest that by the time I
was really interested in what was going on
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:in the world in terms of climate change,
I had moved out of the corporate world.
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:And had begun to do executive
coaching, leadership development,
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:and then eventually moved
into, uh, leading a non profit.
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:So once you're in the non profit
world, as long as your mission
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:aligns, you have a lot more freedom.
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:To be speaking in ways that are sometimes,
uh, might feel quite constrained
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:if you're in the corporate world.
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:I know that there are more organizations
interested in going green and, you know,
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:my, my children are better examples
of this than me because they join in
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:with environmental groups within the
organizations where they work and
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:really appreciate that opportunity.
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:But my own personal experience was.
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:Not one of paying much attention
at all to what was going on in
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:the world outside of my door.
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:You know, it was much more the
typical, get in the, walk down the
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:stairs, get in the car, open the
garage door, drive to work, park in a
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:parking garage, go up to your office,
and put your head down in work.
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:And it was really, not only not was
I not paying attention to uh, climate
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:change and to biodiversity loss.
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:I was really not very connected
to the world around me.
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:I would, I missed it and I
would love being connected.
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:Um, when I could on a vacation
or a weekend or whatever, but
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:there were long periods of time
that, that was not my priority.
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:So I'm chagrined to say that.
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:I'm not particularly proud of it, but
I also want to be honest because, has I
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:lost, I lost track of what was important.
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:Yeah, which can, which
can happen to all of us.
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:I mean, I think it does
happen to many of us.
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:Um, that's great.
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:And I was wondering, um, if there are
moments when you have this trigger,
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:trigger moments when you realize that
I have to leave this corporate world.
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:Um, and do something else with my life.
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:I spent two years trying to figure
out how I was going to leave
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:and if I was going to leave.
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:And it, at the time, was more
about wanting to spend more
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:time with my youngest child.
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:in particular.
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:So that was the, that was the
genesis, but I loved my job.
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:It was a good one.
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:It was what I had worked hard for.
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:It had the kind of trappings that, um,
no one would have been sympathetic if you
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:told them that you're, you know, laboring
over whether you should leave this job.
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:So those make it, um, you know,
they, they don't use the term
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:golden handcuffs for nothing.
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:It, You know, it's very hard
sometimes to leave, and I kept trying
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:to figure out, well, what is it
I want to do if I'm leaving this?
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:And I couldn't figure it out.
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:So finally, I decided I just had to take
the plunge in order to even be able to
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:figure out if there was a there there.
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:Now, I don't know if you're interested in
this, but Um, after that, a few years, a
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:colleague and I did a series of interviews
and focus groups with people who had
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:left large organizations, um, after
they got to the job they had aspired to.
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:And.
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:It was always that first move
was so incredibly difficult.
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:And then we tended to find that
once people made that move and
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:sort of knew they could survive,
it was easier then for them to make
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:a second or a third or a fourth.
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:They weren't so deeply attached to it.
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:But making that first one was a
really big, Decision and a big leap.
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:I can, I can relate.
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:Me too.
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:I can relate too.
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:I had, you said something about
not feeling connected and I, can I
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:read something from your book here?
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:Of course.
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:I love this.
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:We are made for oneness.
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:Born of the stars as are all beings
we are inextricably of and within the
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:holy mystery itself Whether we know it
or not whether we live into it or not.
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:We cannot separate ourselves
from the shimmering web of life.
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:Ah
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:That's just beautiful and when when did
you feel that connection after you left
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:when did you feel like you were more
connected to that shimmering web of life.
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:So forests speak to me, um,
individual trees as well.
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:I've taken to saying sometimes I think
because I grew up in Kansas where there
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:were so few, they were so precious to me.
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:But, um, So, I would say those kinds
of experiences always had the power
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:to halt my busy mind and let me drop
in more to, um, an embodied feeling.
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:of being connected and being present.
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:So that could happen in a, you
know, walking around the yard.
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:If I could get my busy mind to
stop, it was more likely to happen
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:in a place where I was surrounded
more fully by the living world.
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:And then I would be really
be able to slow that down.
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:But it took me, um, probably
years, maybe five years or so
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:after leaving the corporate world,
because I didn't fully slow down.
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:I kept doing executive coaching
and leadership development work.
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:So I had more spaciousness in my schedule,
but not so much, um, a change of scene.
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:in some ways.
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:So it was a long process
of unwinding for me.
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:I'm a slow learner when it
comes to some of these things.
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:So it, it really took me a while to get
clear that that was what was important.
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:When I was working, um, In the, um, in
the nonprofit world, I was executive
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:director for Shalem Institute, which
is a, uh, an institute that supports
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:contemplative living and leadership.
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:And so I was inviting people into the
world and retreats and in pilgrimages,
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:and that was such a rich gift.
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:You know, what a retreat was in the
corporate world was really turned on
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:its head when we're talking about the
kind of retreats that I started leading.
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:It was a whole different kind
of experience for me as a leader
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:and certainly for participants.
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:So a lot of my, um, a lot of my
discovery has been in going with others.
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:You know, kind of in an, in accompanying
others into quiet or into open
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:spaces, into microscopic beauty.
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:Um, I just, in accompanying, I
find it a heart opening experience.
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:That's, you know, something that I've
got a few friends as teachers that
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:they, you know, you ask them, how
do you handle the stress, um, You
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:know, corralling 23rd graders, right?
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:Like they're, you know, like all this
energy and stress and, and they're like,
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:you know, the joy is like seeing their
eyes learn these things for the first time
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:and like getting to keep reliving that
pure, that deep, pure joy and excitement
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:is like a thing that I have a few friends
that like hearken to in that space.
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:And, and the way you said that
Leah reminds me of that teacher
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:mentality of like getting to.
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:The joy is getting to watch someone else
come to that, that, uh, that moment the
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:first time and you get to keep redoing it.
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:Um, it's interesting that
you say that sort of thing.
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:We.
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:For our, we have a twice a year
sort of retreat for my company,
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:for our, our leadership and
the, and we rotate who plans it.
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:And one of the, the team member who's
planning it this year is a lover
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:of the outdoors and has advocated
for, and with a little bit of little
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:bit of pulling everyone along has
gotten the leadership to agree to go.
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:do it as an outdoor retreat as
opposed to sort of our classic, you
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:know, we all gather together, we fly
in and sit in the conference room.
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:And, you know, we might go out to
a dinner that night, but instead
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:of going out and going camping
together, um, and having our meetings.
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:So it's, it is a full new, she's
a very respected team member.
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:She's been with us 20 something years,
and she's got enough, uh, uh, chips
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:with all the other managers that
she's like, this is what I'm leading.
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:This is what we're doing.
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:She got everyone on board.
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:So I'm excited to see if maybe.
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:Maybe those conversations and strategic
things are, maybe there's, there's a
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:difference if we're doing an outdoors,
not, not in a conference room.
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:Uh, Brian, I would love to hear about
that because I really, I would be
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:curious if relationships, um, change,
you know, there, there is something,
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:there's something around a campfire,
you know, there's something about
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:starlit nights that's different.
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:Different pace.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:No, I'm excited to see how it goes.
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:Oh, I will, I will report back to you.
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:Good.
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:Is there, I'm curious as you
witness people sort of go through
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:that transition a little bit.
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:Are there other things that you think
to encourage them now that, you know,
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:there's some of that waking up that you
then help send them down the pathway of
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:like other little, you Habits or patterns?
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:Like I tend to think about
things as like pattern change.
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:Like, are there other little changes
to their own daily patterns or habits
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:that you encourage that might help keep
nourishing that little spark or flame?
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:I love that you asked that.
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:Um, I had a teacher who reminded
us that, you know, you're
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:always practicing something.
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:So, even though we can think that
how many thousand times it will
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:take to establish a new habit,
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:but it only starts when it starts because
otherwise you're continuing to practice
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:your old habit and reinforcing that.
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:So it becomes very embodied.
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:Um, when I was doing executive coaching,
I did a fair amount of work and
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:study in the, in the somatic field.
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:And that was really helpful for me because
I had cultivated a life of the mind and
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:I think that my own experience is that
a relationship to a tree or a plant
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:or a bird or whatever is much less
likely to happen if I am only about,
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:um, understanding their biology, uh, be
sure I'm, Being sure that I could name
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:what they are, you know, identifying
sounds, whatever, if I'm coming at it
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:from a mind space, it's a different
relationship, like it would be with you.
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:You know, if my, if my entire relationship
with you was around content and problem
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:solving, that's very different than if we
see each other from more of a heart space.
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:In the natural world, I would say the
invitation is to go to our senses.
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:And, you know, and, and take
them one by one and refine them.
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:Because for me, if I keep practicing
over and over what I'm thinking about
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:and how I will speak and how I can
articulate what I want to say or write
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:or convey, I am less practicing listening
or, or taking in the smell of the pines.
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:or hearing all of the sounds in a forest.
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:There's a practice, a Celtic practice
called tuning the five stringed harp,
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:which Jen's nodding, you probably
read in the book, you know, taking
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:one at a time, each of those strings
of the harp, each of those senses.
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:And just focusing in on that and tuning
it and staying with it and sharpening it.
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:You think about our ancestors and
how generations back, they would
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:have had to know those things.
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:They wouldn't have lived if they hadn't,
you know, so they would have had to know
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:that and they would have to, you know,
it's a, it's a sensory experience, it's
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:a gut feeling, it's a heart opening.
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:It's all of those somatic
practices that I invite people to.
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:Over and over again and
slowing, always slowing.
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:I was reading something this morning
from the center, uh, for action and
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:contemplation, and it was speaking to
that, it was speaking to, you know,
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:it's not all about, um, the business
, the, the brain business and, uh,
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:and more, uh, more about the heart.
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:And, uh, and so in that, I'm, I'm
thinking you have a chapter in here,
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:uh, called Dancing with Grief and Joy.
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:And one of the questions I have is
about, uh, is about the grief around
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:what's going on with climate right now.
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:And, and how does one mitigate that?
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:How does one, I mean, how does
one accompany people through
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:that maybe is a better question.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:I like the way you adjusted
that because I, I don't think
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:we can mitigate the grief.
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:Um, it is here.
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:Um, it's surrounding us.
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:We are not going to live long enough, any
of us, to have a future where the grief
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:is not present around the loss of so many
things in this amazing, beautiful world.
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:If you read, I don't know, I think
it's in the Washington Post and
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:may well be in the New York Times.
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:If you've read recently, I think it
was the day before yesterday, about the
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:howler monkeys in Mexico falling out of
the trees, dead or dying, because they
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:are both malnourished and dehydrated.
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:And it is true.
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:just simply heartbreaking.
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:There is no way that we cannot
find ourselves full of grief if
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:we're paying any attention at all.
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:So rather than say, what
do we do about that?
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:How do we avoid it?
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:Could we stick our head in the sand?
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:You know, could we cover
our eyes, cover our ears?
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:Which I totally understand is so tempting.
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:I think the question is how
do we open larger, larger?
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:How do we open ourselves more and more?
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:How do we allow our hearts to break
so that we hold that grief along with.
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:The awe and the wonder and the beauty
and the joy, because it is also there.
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:And so my concern is if we deny
the grief, we numb ourselves.
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:And in numbing ourselves, then we numb
all experiences, you know, or we just
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:don't get to choose to be sort of numb.
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:And so.
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:We want to be fully alive and present to
this amazing world and to each other in
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:these edge times as difficult as they are.
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:That's the dancing.
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:It's holding, holding both and
finding the beauty that exists both
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:alongside the sadness and sometimes
the beauty that exists within.
379
:that loss as well.
380
:So not an easy thing for me.
381
:It's the only way I see to be with.
382
:What is happening?
383
:For that, do you have any practical
tips to raise an open jaw?
384
:Well, in a way, in a way, Leaky, they're,
they're kind of the same practices,
385
:right, that you would if you were
going to experience awe and wonder.
386
:And you may want to start with the
awe and wonder as your practice
387
:because it's everywhere, you know.
388
:Um, but it is opening the senses.
389
:You know, it is opening the heart.
390
:If you think about being with, um,
a good friend who is grieving and
391
:maybe you don't even know why, you
just know they're in a really state
392
:of, you know, a deep state of sadness
and you're sitting with them, whether
393
:they say anything or not, you know,
you notice their eyes are welling up.
394
:You notice that there's a way in
which they're holding their bodies.
395
:You know, that's grief
and your body knows that.
396
:And it responds.
397
:And you feel tears welling up in your
eyes, you know, so if we're talking about
398
:the for talking about being in nature
in a place where there's a lot of loss.
399
:I think we don't have to try to do
anything except to simply be there.
400
:Now grief is best held, um, with ritual,
you know, and we probably have to invent
401
:a lot of those because we don't have
some that maybe, maybe our ancestors did.
402
:So ritual.
403
:And with others who are like hearted.
404
:Um, Much of what we have to bear
would be very hard to bear alone.
405
:So, both with other humans and with those
more than, more than humans in the world,
406
:we join in, in our grief and in our joy.
407
:Um, Leah, may I ask a question, um,
for our audience, can you help talk
408
:through and explain somatic therapy
and sort of just explain that term
409
:and what it means and sort of the body
of practice behind it a little bit?
410
:You had some great commentary.
411
:Yeah.
412
:We're about it and it.
413
:And it feels very applicable to
this conversation and your thoughts.
414
:Yeah, sure.
415
:So what I was, uh, what I was working on
is what was called somatic leadership,
416
:which simply says you don't just
walk into a room as a leader with
417
:a voice and with an action plan.
418
:You walk into a room as
a fully embodied person.
419
:And so we would all know that difference.
420
:We would be able to see it because
people expect words and body to align.
421
:And when they don't, we don't trust them.
422
:So if I were to say to you, sure, Brian,
I'm, I'm very happy to help you with that.
423
:With my arms folded.
424
:You wouldn't feel that.
425
:Right.
426
:And for our audience listening,
like Leah just embodied the opposite
427
:of her words in the context here.
428
:Leah was definitely telling
me no with her body.
429
:And in tone, we, you know, tone, Brian,
because we learn so much from tone.
430
:So it's the words, the tone,
the nonverbals all aligned.
431
:We think that our words matter, but
people, people read us far more from
432
:our nonverbals and then our tone
and our words are kind of frosting.
433
:On the cake.
434
:Yeah.
435
:So when I talk about somatic
practices, um, what I'm talking
436
:about is a practice that invites me
to be open, present, and available.
437
:That would mean to be open, present,
and available is, let's say, let's say
438
:we were in a setting and I was your
boss and you came in to talk to me.
439
:And I was sitting there answering emails
and picking up phone calls in the middle.
440
:You would not have the sense that I was
open, present, and available to you.
441
:That's one piece of it.
442
:You know, the other piece is kind
of like determining our intent and
443
:holding that intent, um, in a way
that we're embodying it as well.
444
:It's like we are the declaration
of what we want to accomplish.
445
:It's not an out there in the speech.
446
:It's a fully embraced sense.
447
:Yep.
448
:You're doing it.
449
:See, we're both doing the up and
down that nobody can see, but
450
:Leah and I both just made the
same gesture of just Yeah, yeah,
451
:it's hard not to because that's
what we're talking about, right?
452
:We're talking about the
importance of embodying.
453
:And so we're trying to
figure out, this is it.
454
:This is my whole problem with my book.
455
:I'm trying to write about
things that actually are.
456
:don't have words, you know, and
now I'm trying to explain a concept
457
:through words that I'm really
talking about is beyond words.
458
:So here we go.
459
:Embodiment, incarnation.
460
:Oh, I was just going to ask
about, um, kith and kin, and if
461
:you wouldn't mind talking about
that, explaining that to us a bit.
462
:Sure.
463
:Sure.
464
:So, uh, indigenous scholar Enrique
Salmon speaks about kin centric ecology,
465
:and the idea that for many, uh, if
not most indigenous peoples, there is
466
:a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood
with the more than human world around.
467
:Robin Wall Kimmerer is, um, an author
I think so highly of, and I really,
468
:um, would love to just sit at her feet
for long extended periods of time.
469
:She writes over and over about
kinship, that we are the younger
470
:brother and sister, that when you
look at the evolution of the universe.
471
:We come last, so we are
the least knowledgeable.
472
:Trees, for instance, have been
here far longer than we have,
473
:so they have practice, they have
a knowing that we don't have.
474
:And it's, so that's one
way of thinking about it.
475
:Another way of thinking about it is to,
um, not assume that our intelligence is
476
:superior in every way, but to understand
that many beings have their own unique
477
:intelligence, some of which we just
haven't even begun to learn about yet.
478
:We started out, Brian, we
were talking about soil.
479
:Well, think about, you know, what's going
on under this top layer that is amazing.
480
:It's connected.
481
:It's sending messages.
482
:It's sending nutrients and receiving them.
483
:I mean, there's this whole amazing
system that we didn't even know
484
:about until fairly recently.
485
:We certainly didn't know how trees were
exchanging nutrients with each other
486
:underground and keeping each other alive.
487
:So, so there is so much
intelligence in this world.
488
:And so this is also another
way of, of honoring that.
489
:So when I'm speaking of kin,
I am intentionally doing that.
490
:That's a habit I am trying to establish
to break my habit of othering.
491
:So anything I treat as othering.
492
:Other, other than human, or other than me.
493
:I begin to slip into this.
494
:Um, sense that it is
something I could use.
495
:It's something I could own.
496
:It's something that serves me and my
wants, and that it doesn't have this
497
:viability of its own, and I think
it's a slippery slope because once
498
:we other, um, let's say the land
around us, then maybe I other the
499
:people who are living on that land.
500
:And they too are not like me.
501
:And maybe they're lesser than.
502
:And, um, there's a, there's a, Amitav
Ghosh in The Nutmeg's Curse talks
503
:about how the words brute and savage
were cultivated to hold people as
504
:other, and therefore being other, you
were allowed to do what you willed.
505
:to be dominant over.
506
:So that's maybe a whole lot longer
than you wanted, but that's a piece
507
:of the kin, is trying to re establish
a, a more, uh, appreciative and
508
:loving focus with what's around us.
509
:Now kif, I just sort of
went back and grabbed that.
510
:That's a historical term that was
occasionally used to mean the land.
511
:Um, and then It somehow
fell in to be kith and kin.
512
:It was just sort of like
one phrase all together.
513
:And because I needed a word, I, I really
said, let's put kith back there with land.
514
:So we have the land and the
beings on the land, the kin.
515
:Um, because that was a concept
I really wanted to talk about.
516
:Is that, you started your book , in
the introduction, telling the
517
:story of a woman who's weeding.
518
:Um, as weaving in, in Dun, um, weaving
a piece of cloth, or, I don't remember
519
:exactly, but, and I was just struck
by the word weave, and weaving.
520
:It just resonated with me so strongly,
like, you know, the, I mean, what is
521
:lacking today is to weave us, or it's
to weave a relationship with the world.
522
:Everything around us, we have this
umbering relationship with everything
523
:around us, whereas I think what, I
think this is what we're trying to
524
:explain, that the right attitude
is to weave our stories, our, our
525
:life, our, our evolution together.
526
:I mean, maybe I'm, I'm
misinterpreting the, the sense of.
527
:I totally agree with you.
528
:Yes.
529
:Yes.
530
:It's a journey, it's a
journey of reweaving.
531
:I actually started out, that was the title
I was using, Reweaving Earth and Soul.
532
:Actually I started Reweaving
Soul and Earth, is what I was
533
:calling it, in edge times.
534
:Um, those were important to me.
535
:And then I had a publisher who
said, nobody's going to know
536
:what you're talking about.
537
:And I was like, that is
what I want to talk about.
538
:Um, so yeah, so it, so it evolved,
but yes, I'm glad you picked up the
539
:story of the woman weaving the world
because I think, uh, you know, it's an
540
:old story and some of these rich old
stories can be interpreted in so many
541
:ways, even by us, you know, tomorrow.
542
:May be a, a way we interpret that's
very different than today, given
543
:whatever comes our way, we keep, that's
what a good story should have, right?
544
:That richness of being able to,
uh, to explore and hold it and, and
545
:look at it in many different ways.
546
:And, and I don't know if you want me
to say a bit about that story or, yeah.
547
:So this is a story of the old woman
weaving the world who is in a cave,
548
:probably not very far from where you live,
uh, but you can never find this cave.
549
:And all day long, she sits and weaves
the most beautiful fabric in the world.
550
:Every so often though, she has to get up
from her weaving and walk to the back of
551
:this cave, this cave that, um, is very
deep because it's important that she stir
552
:This big pot that is on the fire that
is full of the roots and the seeds and
553
:the nuts of this living world and if she
doesn't stir it then it might burn and
554
:who knows what problems that might cause.
555
:So she walks very slowly to the back
of the cave and as she is stirring
556
:Stirring and then very slowly
returning because she is very old.
557
:There's a black dog who awakens.
558
:He's been lying there
all the time at her feet.
559
:And he begins to gnaw on the weaving
and pull on one thread and then another
560
:and then another until pretty soon all
of the weaving is lying on the floor.
561
:When she returns, then she sees all
of her beautiful work in disarray.
562
:And she pauses, and she looks, and
then slowly she bends down, and she
563
:picks up one of the threads, and a
new design takes place in her mind,
564
:and slowly she begins to reweave a
new and even more beautiful design.
565
:Can I just confess that that story struck
me so much that I actually told it.
566
:At the beginning of a sermon, I'm a
minister, so at the beginning of a sermon,
567
:um, because it was just so perfect.
568
:That's so good.
569
:I heard a friend, I had a
friend who told the story and I,
570
:you're more perceptive than I.
571
:The first couple of times I heard
it, I went, okay, where's that going?
572
:And what an annoying thing.
573
:And I've told it to people who are like,
well, why didn't she just put the dog out?
574
:Because clearly this is
going to happen every time.
575
:Why is she leaving the dog there?
576
:And my response is, because it's a story.
577
:And you know, you're going
to have to resolve that.
578
:I, you know, I don't
tell you what it means.
579
:So anyway, but yeah, so it took me a
while to get it, uh, in my heart, you
580
:know, and, and now I love the story
and it means everything and nothing
581
:and different things every time.
582
:I love it.
583
:There's the sort of almost the
instead of putting the dog out because
584
:let's say that represents entropy,
like sort of like all this chaos
585
:and all these other things, right?
586
:Like Um, we know we can't, and
so if we can't, let's be at
587
:peace and make something new and
beautiful out of, you know, there's
588
:so many layers to that lesson.
589
:I wanted to go back to, I think it was
like a minute ago, because it, it echoed
590
:really strongly for me, my, many of my
friends, but especially my coworkers hear
591
:me talk incessantly about what I refer to
as, as others do, it's my term, as the us.
592
:them dynamic, right?
593
:And sort of our, our anchoring in our
evolutionary biology around like our
594
:brains are hardwired to create and draw a
distinction between two different things.
595
:Right?
596
:I'm holding up here on the video,
two different coffee cups of
597
:different shapes and types, one's a
thermos and one's a classic ceramic.
598
:Well, they're both coffee cups,
but they're two different, like
599
:you can look at them and be like,
well, those are not the same thing.
600
:They're very different.
601
:They have different colors and shapes.
602
:And attributes, but they're
both coffee cups or tea.
603
:They're, at the moment,
they're both tea cups.
604
:Um, and I talk a lot about how we're
wired to find those distinctions.
605
:And it's like our prefrontal,
like our cognitive side that
606
:needs to help us undo that.
607
:That thing that naturally
just happens, right?
608
:Um, and we find that challenge in
so many places in, in, in our daily
609
:life, whether it's around, you know,
affinity towards political groups or
610
:religious or of sexual orientation,
just all these different things.
611
:And I'm curious, you know, any wisdom
that you might share with our audience
612
:about how we do that, that practice,
how, how do we go back to the practice
613
:of overcoming that innate, natural.
614
:You know, pattern recognition
and pattern differentiation
615
:function with, that is part of our
species and many other species.
616
:How do we overcome that on a, on a daily
minute to minute basis in a way that
617
:helps us take that us dynamic and spread
that circle to include some of the them
618
:and make our circle bigger and bigger
and bigger and, and it's both throughout,
619
:you know, expanded amongst us humans.
620
:But then also to look at these, I was just
reading about the howler monkeys that you
621
:mentioned, which I had not yet heard that
story and looking at them being like,
622
:those are the size of my kids, right?
623
:Like, and they're dying from
heat exhaustion from a heat wave.
624
:And you know, like that's hard to
think about if you really pause and
625
:reflect on like, what's happening.
626
:You know, and, and that group.
627
:So I, I go back to my question, I
guess, being like for tips and wisdom
628
:on how we widen that us perspective
and then be more inclusive of the,
629
:what otherwise might be the thems.
630
:Yeah, well, um, you know, here's my hunch.
631
:Um, I, as you said, our brains
are really good at that.
632
:They're really good at differentiating
and, and there's certainly times
633
:we need to differentiate, right?
634
:So that's an important brain function.
635
:My hunches go to the heart, because
the heart knows how to keep drawing
636
:bigger and bigger circles, right?
637
:The heart has this limitless capacity
for compassion and so in that continual
638
:opening of the heart, we hold the
mind in a little bit more of a Well,
639
:we let the mind stay in its place.
640
:I think we're so, me, I'll stay me.
641
:I'm so practiced because I
spent years of practicing.
642
:Let me back up and say that I was
a female executive trying to move
643
:ahead in a world full of men.
644
:You do not think I was leading
with the heart, do you?
645
:I mean, really.
646
:you know, that was not
how the game was played.
647
:Now, I was trying to be kind to people.
648
:I'm not saying that, but I'm saying
I became really practiced in logical,
649
:rational, um, Interactions, problem
solvings, argument and decision making.
650
:So my practice has been,
needs some balance here.
651
:That needs to balance out with a heart
that is more open and caring and loving.
652
:There's a contemplative, uh, phrase
called the mind and heart, you know,
653
:to bring your mind into your heart.
654
:We also know from those who study the
heart that a lot of the information
655
:comes in through the heart.
656
:We just send it to the mind, and then
the mind, depending on what we're
657
:letting our mind do, can take over.
658
:So, that's my hunch, is that when, uh,
When we can't get out of the othering or,
659
:you know, the, making the distinctions,
um, when we're so annoyed about how that
660
:person, you know, took over something
that we were supposed to do and that
661
:was mine and what are they doing
interfering, or I'm feeling dismissed.
662
:It, it, we've got to drop, you know,
we've got to drop into that hard space if
663
:we don't want that to be the place that
we are, you know, living and engaging.
664
:in that moment or in all
of our moments, perhaps.
665
:That make sense?
666
:I have a question now about, um, what
the right response has been to the book.
667
:It's been out since February and I
just wonder what conversations are you
668
:having now, now that it's out there?
669
:Yeah.
670
:Well, conversations like
these are so, so back up.
671
:I wrote the book because I said, this is
the conversation that right now, as far as
672
:I can tell, this is the conversation that
I want to be in for the rest of my life.
673
:Like, I feel like this is the
conversation I'm called into.
674
:So here we go.
675
:I've already told you, you know,
candidly about my background and I will
676
:tell you occasionally or maybe more
than occasionally, I warp into this,
677
:do I have enough reviews on Amazon?
678
:And where I'm really trying
to live is in these absolutely
679
:wonderful, enriching conversations.
680
:that are so meaningful
to me and to others.
681
:And so the responses that I really just.
682
:You know, care about, someone wrote
on, on Goodreads something along the
683
:lines of, I'm so glad I found this book.
684
:It's the first time I've been
able to breathe in months.
685
:I mean, that's why I wrote the book,
you know, if there are 10 people
686
:who feel that way, I'm done, right?
687
:I mean, really.
688
:Um.
689
:I'm So that would be worth two
years, two years of work, two
690
:years of writing and another year
of getting it out in the world.
691
:That would be worth it if, if
people could, um, see a way to hold.
692
:How we will live in these
times on the edge of such loss.
693
:I will say that it seems to be the
people who most resonate with the book
694
:are those who are already working really
hard for this world and are feeling so
695
:sad that you know, they They don't see
the difference and um, so I just, I'm
696
:enjoying being a companion on the road
for people who are in that kind of space.
697
:I resonate with all the viewer
on the bridge because I've just
698
:started reading your book and
after the chapter I felt, wow.
699
:I feel really, you know, there's a way,
there's something I can do, and uh, and
700
:maybe I'm just not looking at the issue
the right way, and there's another way.
701
:But at the same time, I feel that
it will take so much time and so
702
:much resources and so many, all
the people need to be involved.
703
:So what can we do?
704
:I know.
705
:I know.
706
:Well, I think yes and yes.
707
:Um, I mean, I want everybody
to be involved and I also don't
708
:know what it's yours to do.
709
:And that's what I want you to find, like,
what is that one thing that's planted deep
710
:within because we can't do everything.
711
:And that's not easy for some of us who
are used to trying to take on the world.
712
:Your one, your one thing may be
that you bring together people to
713
:have these kinds of conversation.
714
:And that is not, you know, that should
in no way be considered not enough.
715
:I mean, that is a huge gift to the world.
716
:And so then you pour everything you
have into that, and you know that you
717
:are making a difference beyond what you
can know and what you will ever know.
718
:And that the difference you're making
may not even show up in your lifetime.
719
:I don't know.
720
:You know, I mean, we know, you
all know that so much of this
721
:climate, um, chaos is baked in.
722
:I mean, it's baked in.
723
:If we made these drastic changes
now, dramatic changes, not drastic,
724
:dramatic, not drastic in that they, we
would probably all have significantly
725
:better lives than we imagine.
726
:Were we to make these kind of significant
changes and be so much less involved in,
727
:you know, you know, consuming and needing
and anyway, before I fall down that hole,
728
:um, I mean, that's the problem, right?
729
:There's so many threads we can, we can
follow here, but you know, so it's baked
730
:in and we are going to be facing loss.
731
:So I see, I see that we
just have to save that.
732
:You know, we can't lie to ourselves
and each other and I, I don't believe
733
:let's not tell people the truth because
you know, it will make them do nothing.
734
:I think we tell them the truth because
they, they have a piece of this.
735
:Every single person has a piece of this.
736
:So I'm going to tell you that it's bad and
I'm also going to tell you that it's not.
737
:That your possibility is living into
that gift you have been given and giving
738
:it as fully and freely and generously
as you possibly can in reciprocity and
739
:gratitude for all the world is giving you.
740
:And to see those things and to lift
them up and to, yeah, all right, I'm
741
:going to quit because I'm starting
to do, do Jen's sermon for her here.
742
:Yeah, you did.
743
:I'm just like,
744
:This is wonderful.
745
:Thank you, Leah.
746
:Thank you.
747
:Anybody have another question?
748
:I'm looking at our time and I know
we've kept you quite long here.
749
:Oh well, I love it.
750
:We could do, you know, I'm
sorry, sorry we're not sitting
751
:around the campfire, you know.
752
:Well, yeah, I'm actually
curious about that.
753
:Maybe we can all at some point
come, or even just virtually.
754
:Yeah, we could do that one day.
755
:Yeah.
756
:But I'm curious about the, the
privilege of the second places in the U.
757
:S.
758
:and internationally that you're leading.
759
:What are those places and what's
the goal and how does it feel to,
760
:you know, to do this privilege?
761
:Well, so, um, I've done probably, I
don't know, pilgrimages, um, and, um,
762
:to really wonderful, beautiful places
from the Pacific Northwest to, uh, the
763
:Isle of Iona off the coast of Scotland.
764
:I'm not doing them anymore, and I'm
not doing them anymore because, um, a
765
:colleague of mine, Beth Norcross, who runs
the Center for Spirituality and Nature,
766
:and I, um, have been collaborating on
some different programs together, and
767
:we're currently writing a book together.
768
:She challenged me somewhere along the
way to create a pilgrimage close to home.
769
:So, um, You know, that kind of
sunk in with me, that we shouldn't
770
:have to go far in order to go deep.
771
:That makes me, I think there's another
layer to that maybe that wasn't
772
:intentional, which is without that
expanded travel footprint, right?
773
:We, we sometimes, I was actually just
chatting with someone, um, here in the U.
774
:S., it's Memorial Day weekend, a
classic sort of start of summer,
775
:um, big, everyone goes somewhere
and, and has a big barbecue.
776
:And they said, oh, where are you going?
777
:And I said, I live in a beautiful place.
778
:Why do I need to go anywhere?
779
:I'm going to spend time, my family
might regret this, but I said,
780
:we're just going to spend time and
like work in our backyard and just
781
:be here in this beautiful place.
782
:I already live.
783
:I don't need to go to
some big destination.
784
:And so Leah, it's interesting as you take
the idea of pilgrimage and bring it local
785
:and say that, you know, there's something
local to you to find your, there's also
786
:like a reduced footprint that you create.
787
:As a result of making that
decision to not go to this.
788
:Absolutely.
789
:That's not lost on me at all, Brian,
because that, you know, that it, it,
790
:it has a sense of a little, well, a
lot of dis ease to be, you know, and,
791
:and I justified it for a long time
talking about what rich experiences
792
:people had, which I believe are true.
793
:And yet, yeah.
794
:Yeah.
795
:Yeah.
796
:Maybe to bring this slightly full
circle, you know, I don't know, maybe,
797
:you know, A year and a half ago, I
can't remember exactly, we did a podcast
798
:recording with, um, uh, sort of an
innovative thinker named Joshua Spodek,
799
:um, who also has a great podcast, uh,
The Sustainable Life and, and, and,
800
:you know, teaches and all those things.
801
:And one of the things that came out
of it for me, Josh and I then started
802
:working on some other things sort of
on the side together and, and he is.
803
:His reflective questioning caused me
to have a lot of, um, really looking
804
:at the impact of my own life and my
work travel and all these things.
805
:And, and even just all every last little
bit of my daily behaviors came into
806
:reflective as I was thinking about it.
807
:And actually it was the grief and
the stress from that self reflection
808
:became almost overwhelming.
809
:And this is something I'm
right on the podcast here.
810
:You know, it really led to just a level
of overwhelming stress and, uh, which
811
:then led to like not sleeping, exhaustion,
and then led to other health things, um,
812
:that culminated last, um, last January
and not happy health moment for me.
813
:And, uh, and a lot, some down deep,
but that was some of this like
814
:wrestling with the grief of all
these things as I looked around.
815
:So maybe as we.
816
:Um, come back to, uh, the beginning
of this podcast, maybe share with our
817
:listeners here some of the, your thoughts
and wisdom on dealing with that as, as
818
:you do, as you, as you pick your head up
out of the sand and look around and absorb
819
:the things happening, you, you can't help
come to the rational conclusion, Oh my
820
:goodness, this is really not good stuff.
821
:And, and I.
822
:All of us are contributing to the not
good stuff in one fashion or another.
823
:Um, so thoughts on like how to
deal with those, those big emotions
824
:that can come out of that and
the sort of the stress, anxiety.
825
:Well, I think to the degree possible,
you know, I said this before,
826
:we want to go together, right?
827
:So we want to be with others.
828
:Um, you know, and we'll, we'll help, um,
not deny what we're feeling, not tell us
829
:that it's wrong or that it's untrue, but
acknowledge the truth of it and be in a
830
:place where they invite us into the and of
it, the joy, the beauty, the, the wisdom.
831
:So that's, that's one thing.
832
:Um, I don't think we can always look
at it all the time and always hold it
833
:front and center that we have to go
into those places and be nourished.
834
:So I can go into the woods and I can
look at, you know, so many trees that
835
:are being decimated by invasive species.
836
:And I can also go in there and enjoy.
837
:It's shady.
838
:It's beautiful.
839
:The canopy is gorgeous.
840
:The, you know, the amazing
network underground is doing
841
:these incredible, magical things.
842
:You know, I can smell
the air being cleaner.
843
:There's, I can sit with that.
844
:And, uh, I have to because
that's also part of our healing.
845
:I think we have to keep healing ourselves
so that we can do this work so that
846
:we cannot dull ourselves, you know, so
that we can hold this grief that is.
847
:And I think sometimes our companions,
you know, our, um, John O'Donohue talked
848
:about our anamkara, our soul friends,
soul friends that accompany us and, you
849
:know, listen deeply to our feelings.
850
:Our soul friends can be trees or
birds or, you know, a beautiful
851
:grassy knoll or a prairie, whatever.
852
:And so sometimes it's going into that
soul friend and just listening, like,
853
:keep breathing in until we can let
those thoughts go and be with what is.
854
:I use the, you know, I think of the
metaphor of walking along a cliff edge,
855
:of being on the edge, and you know,
there's the, the wind and the waves
856
:are pounding below, and part of a cliff
is carved out, and we don't know how
857
:long it will last, but that doesn't
mean there aren't little flowers.
858
:Growing along the edge.
859
:It doesn't mean that you can't reach
out and take the hand of somebody
860
:next to you and pull them back.
861
:It doesn't mean that you can't help
each other over the rocks and stones.
862
:It probably does mean that the path
we're going to be creating isn't clear.
863
:Um, I, I don't know who,
you know, this is the thing.
864
:The old woman came back and she stopped.
865
:And she waited, and I think we're
on a threshold where we have to
866
:wait because I don't think it's
clear how a future that leads us to
867
:mutual well being is going to emerge.
868
:And so I think there's some waiting
that we're also doing, which is not
869
:an easy place for most of us to be.
870
:It's very hard.
871
:So we're doing some waiting to
see what's invited and what is,
872
:what is Earth's invitation that
we can walk along with her.
873
:Um, but in the meantime, you know,
there's part of this deepening our
874
:gifts and our own sense of, you know,
call and invitation that we have.
875
:It's not easy.
876
:It's, it's definitely not.
877
:Um, and, You know, we look for
all those little wonderful sparks
878
:of sparks of joy and bird song.
879
:The idea of waiting there, but finding
those flowers and sort of the things
880
:that are flourishing there and, you know,
being a little bit with them patient with.
881
:You know, the, not that they're cognizant
of the risk of being on the cliff
882
:side, but just sort of being patient
with like just being where they are.
883
:You know, you just provoked for
me when you said that there was a
884
:favorite quote that I've had and
I'm going to have to go back up.
885
:I don't know if it's Neruda.
886
:I can't remember who said it.
887
:A burning patience has taken us thus far.
888
:If people want to, uh.
889
:Find you.
890
:Leah, where do they find you?
891
:I, I often say I have a
very cleverly named website.
892
:It's leahrampey.
893
:com.
894
:So, yeah, so you could go there.
895
:I do occasionally put
out a little newsletter.
896
:I do lead retreats and you can see
where I'm doing that on, on the website.
897
:I am on Instagram at Leah Rampy.
898
:I'm on LinkedIn at Leah Rampy and
I'm on Facebook at Leah Rampy Writer.
899
:So, and the book's available, you
know, at the usual places and go ask
900
:your local bookstore to order it.
901
:Thank you so much for sharing
your wisdom with us today.
902
:I'm so glad that you had me.
903
:What a delightful opportunity.
904
:I feel really, uh, I feel really
energized and privileged to have had the
905
:chance to talk with the three of you.
906
:You make a terrific trio.
907
:Thank you.
908
:Thank you.
909
:So wonderful having you here, Leah.
910
:It feels very privileged to talk with you.
911
:Thank you.
912
:Yeah.
913
:Well, and thanks for all of the good
work you're putting in to the world.
914
:You've been listening to Carbon
Sessions, a podcast with carbon
915
:conversations for every day, with
everyone, from everywhere in the world.
916
:We'd love you to join the Carbon Sessions.
917
:So you too can share your
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918
:This is a great way for our community
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919
:experiences, connect and take action.
920
:If you want to add your voice to the
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921
:org slash podcasts and sign up
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922
:This podcast is also part of
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923
:For more information, to sign up
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924
:and to order your copy of The Carbon
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925
:org.
926
:Be sure to subscribe and join
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927
:we can change the world.