Episode 125
[FOCUS] Permaculture (on our stories with Nature)
Episode Summary: This discussion on Permaculture is an excerpt from a previous episode titled 'Permaculture in Practice'.
Rob is a permaculture advocate who, 20 years ago, transformed his garden using permaculture design principles and never looked back. Rob lives in Langley, British Columbia, Canada.
In this segment, Rob Copeman-Haynes introduced some of the principles of permaculture design as well as the foundational ethics of this movement.
He shared his experience and profound emotions from his relationship with his garden and its ecosystem. He also discussed connectedness and resilience.
To listen to the full episode of this conversation, go here
For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org
Want to join in the conversation?
Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.
Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!
You can find out more on pages 83, 201, 66 and 76 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website you can tap the footnotes link and type in 373, 031, 013 and 022
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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Jenn Swanson and Leekei Tang, and Special Guest Rob Copeman-Haynes
From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves.
Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and a podcaster from Paris, France.
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Since you’ve come this far, please show your Aloha
Hawaii has suffered a great tragedy. The deadliest wildfires in the last century.
Maui-based Carbon Almanac Contributor Richie Biluan wrote “You are important. Your voice is important. Your aloha is significant. If you are on social media, send someone an encouraging comment who you see is going through this tragedy, or any for that matter. Share critical information with your network. Write. Read. And most importantly - love one another.”
Visit Richie IG to find out how you can help
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.
Transcript
Yeah, it was an interesting conversation 'cause he was talking
Speaker:about all the hidden costs that there are in industrial agriculture that
Speaker:aren't translated to the consumer.
Speaker:Um, and that we don't hear about.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:I, I have a, actually, I have lots of questions, but, uh, one of them is,
Speaker:I understand that you don't, you're not really gardening, you're not
Speaker:trying to control their, the, um, the environment, the growing environment.
Speaker:So how can you how the layers in the food forests, do they grow naturally?
Speaker:And how long does it take to get d different layers for the nature
Speaker:to become, um, yeah, to build the, the forest to be built.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So I, I did set it up, but, um, I'm glad to use the word control 'cause I, okay.
Speaker:Control is what's inherent in kind of our western way of seeing the world.
Speaker:Um, I do however, manage it in some way.
Speaker:So, and that's a very different approach.
Speaker:It's not that I don't pull out things that I don't really want there, uh, um,
Speaker:but I rarely, um, take out all of them.
Speaker:Like fennel, for instance, is, is kind of volunteered in the garden
Speaker:from who knows what in one year.
Speaker:I just kind of let it go.
Speaker:And they'll become, you know, six feet tall.
Speaker:It's huge.
Speaker:And the, the great benefit of them is they're a great pollinator.
Speaker:They attract LPs and stuff, so I know that I'm feeding the
Speaker:neighborhood's insects when I do that.
Speaker:On the other hand, when I distributed sub compost, I realized all those
Speaker:fennel seeds are in the compost, and I didn't get the compost quite hot enough
Speaker:so that the seal seeds were killed.
Speaker:And then those seeds are naturally spread around too.
Speaker:So I'm pulling out fennel everywhere.
Speaker:So there's a fine balance.
Speaker:Between, uh, just letting things happen and tweaking a bit.
Speaker:Does that begin to answer your, your question?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, except harvesting.
Speaker:Do you do any work?
Speaker:Like, I look at my neighbors, I.
Speaker:Um, they're out there working with their lawnmower ostensibly working.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But the, the, the thing that's really doing the work is the stored sunlight
Speaker:in the form of fossil energies from millions of years ago, and all they're
Speaker:doing is walking behind their lawnmower.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But I'm pretty sure they all, uh, even to the ones who really care about
Speaker:what their yard looks like and, and take pride in that, they all, I would
Speaker:think that, They're thinking, they're doing work because it has to be done
Speaker:at a certain point and to maintain the kind of look that they need to,
Speaker:because of a social story that we have about what yards need to be.
Speaker:Um, they view that as work.
Speaker:Um, whereas I'm out there harvesting my, I'm doing something productive that, that
Speaker:benefits me, that keeps the yard going, that that has benefited other creatures.
Speaker:So when I, I'm.
Speaker:Sure it, it's work, but it's not, the tedious labor that is, is
Speaker:sometimes described as the, the property of subsistence agriculture.
Speaker:When I'm doing something that's meaningful and joyful and and productive for me
Speaker:like that, that creates breakfast.
Speaker:Like this morning we went, well, yesterday we went and picked a bunch of strawberries
Speaker:and uh, you know, it's like I'm out there in the garden doing yoga essentially.
Speaker:Uh, bending, ulcer, ulcer and, and treating my body well
Speaker:and treating the yard well.
Speaker:When we can find ways of, of being holistically in the world, um, that may
Speaker:or may not, you know, quote unquote save the world, we're, we're better positioned
Speaker:to, um, respond to what's going on at, and, and maybe in a time of food
Speaker:insecurity and changing climate stuff, it, it might help a little bit, but in.
Speaker:You know, really 15 to 20 years of me beginning this whole process.
Speaker:And more radically in the six or seven last years, I haven't seen
Speaker:any of my neighbors take serious steps towards mimicking me, with
Speaker:exception of a couple of teenagers who now, teenagers who I met when
Speaker:they were four and eight respectively.
Speaker:Um, with whom I have great relationships and then come
Speaker:over and help me in the garden.
Speaker:Um, You know, that's kind of a disappointing thing, and I realize
Speaker:just how much we need to get at the stories that are there in social norms.
Speaker:I, if we're to make true what, uh, the Carbon Almanac Chef Godin
Speaker:are saying that it's not too late.
Speaker:Uh, we need to be doing more than just building gardens in our front yard.
Speaker:But if that's a foundation for you, feeling connected to nature and.
Speaker:As part of the earth that you are, then that's a good first step, but everybody's
Speaker:first step, it could be different.
Speaker:How's that for an, for an expanding of the field of conversation?
Speaker:I was just gonna say, you said your story is a little bit different or
Speaker:you're focused on a different story now.
Speaker:Do you wanna share anything about that?
Speaker:Oh, that, I mean, what I'm, I'm really interested in is, is what is the
Speaker:story that we're currently enacting?
Speaker:Um, That's a phrase that, uh, Daniel Quinn uses in his book.
Speaker:Um, I dunno if he actually uses it.
Speaker:Yeah, he does in his book.
Speaker:Uh, Ishmael, you know, the story we're enacting is one of separation from
Speaker:nature that we can control nature, that we're kind of the pinnacle, um,
Speaker:crop of, of mammals, if you will.
Speaker:And it's up to us to control and do everything which is, which is both.
Speaker:Full of hubris and too much responsibility.
Speaker:So I'm, I'm interested in a story and how to tell that
Speaker:story and have people hear it.
Speaker:That helps us feel like, um, we're part of an unfolding story and we don't know
Speaker:really how it ends, except that it ends in goodness somehow, even when there's
Speaker:tragedy and, and terribly difficult stuff that we will yet have to face.
Speaker:Um, So what?
Speaker:What's the inner emotional work we need to do, and what's the
Speaker:public grieving we need to do?
Speaker:That seems really important to me.
