Episode 134

Johannes Schwegler from TREEO on Harnessing Tech for Carbon Capture, Ecosystems Restoration, and Fairer Payouts To Tree Farmers

Episode Summary: Join Johannes Schwegler along with hosts Olabanji, Leekei, Brian, Jenn, and Kristina as they explore TREEO's innovative approach to scaling reforestation through technology. 

Topics covered in this comprehensive discussion include:

  • Johannes’ journey to Borneo and carpenter experience
  • Founding Fairventures: a non-profit for tree planting
  • Addressing the discrepancy between trees planted and trees grown
  • The importance of comprehensive census in reforestation management
  • Leveraging technology for donor trust leads to carbon storage monitoring
  • Wildfires, rainforests, and forest management strategies
  • An inside look at TREEO.app's tree growth monitoring
  • Balancing forest thinning and food cultivation
  • Starting small and navigating the carbon capture landscape, vision, process, and challenges
  • New insights into soil and agricultural carbon sequestration
  • Carbon removal vs. Carbon offset markets: the need for regulation and transparency
  • Transitioning to for-profit: scaling TREEO for greater impact
  • Unpacking the carbon market value chain and ensuring fair income for tree farmers

Connect with Johannes Schwegler: https://treeo.one/en/

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For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Since you’ve come this far, please show your Aloha

Hawaii has suffered a great tragedy. The deadliest wildfires in the last century. 

Maui-based Carbon Almanac Contributor Richie Biluan wrote “You are important. Your voice is important. Your aloha is significant. If you are on social media, send someone an encouraging comment who you see is going through this tragedy, or any for that matter. Share critical information with your network. Write. Read. And most importantly - love one another.”

Visit Richie’s IG to find out how you can help

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Olabanji Stephen, Brian Tormey, Jenn Swanson and Kristina Horning.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

Olabanji is from Lagos Nigeria. He’s a Creative Director and visual designer that helps brands gain clarity, deliver meaningful experiences and build tribes through Design & Strategy. He founded Jorney - a community designed to help people stay productive, accountable, and do their best work.

Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

Kristina has a background in architecture and engineering. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Transcript
Speaker:

Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

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A podcast with Carbon Conversations

for every day with everyone

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from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

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can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Hi, I'm Olabunji.

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Hello, I'm Nikki.

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Hi, I'm Jen.

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Hi, I'm Christina.

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Hi, I'm Johannes.

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Today, we're going to have

a very beautiful and fun

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conversation with Johannes.

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Johannes is the CEO and founder

of Trio and Fair Ventures Digital.

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He went to Indonesia in 1997 as

a volunteer to teach carpentry.

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And based on his experience there,

he founded a nonprofit organization,

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Fair Ventures Worldwide in 2012.

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With which he collected the nation's

to carry out reforestation projects in

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Indonesia, the devastating consequences

of massive deforestation and rainforest

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and the palm oil industry shocked

him early on, and he was always

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looking for ways to counteract this

in:

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challenge led to the development of

the smartphone app trio, which was

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incorporated into fair ventures digital.

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In 2021 as a spinoff trio, finally

open up the opportunity for scaling

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carbon dioxide removals with

biodiversity and social benefits.

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Okay.

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And just in case that sounded like

a lot of English, we're going to get

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down to it and it's going to be fun.

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So welcome Johannes.

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It is so, so good to meet you and

to have this conversation with you.

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Thanks so much.

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Yeah, we can start with a bit of.

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A dive.

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I mean, we like to start from

the beginning, so to say.

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So, um, part of what was very interesting

in the video view that I saw was how you

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went to, uh, Borneo to teach carpentry.

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Um, I'll put it in your words to

help the people use their best

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resource, which Um, so what, what

led you to that part of your life?

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What were you doing before that point?

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How did you get there?

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And, um, why, why even engage

in that in the first place?

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Yeah.

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So I'm a carpenter and a timber engineer,

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I worked on, uh, in a carpentry.

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So, uh, as a timber engineer

and it was my wish to,

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Leave Germany together with the

family, actually, um, to contribute to

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carbon tree education.

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And I saw there are many places in the

world where, locks are exported only.

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There is no added value.

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and, uh, I asked myself,

why should it be like that?

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So why not adding value at site?

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So where you harvest, where you cut

the trees Then I applied for a job in

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development corporation and I got it.

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And then we moved to

central Calimantan, Borneo.

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Wow.

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That's beautiful.

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Um, so.

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What was it like in Borneo, you know,

engaging and doing work like this because

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a lot of what has happened in your

journey seemed to be, I don't know if,

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if the word to say is inspired or, um,

how, how has, how was your stay in Borneo

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and you know, what was going on there?

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How did you feel about it?

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You know, tell us a bit about that.

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Yeah, imagine when I arrived, in Banja

Masin, this is South Kalimantan, the

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capital of South, South Kalimantan.

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So it took us two hours by boat.

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So, um, upstream, there was no road,

there was no car, there was no motorcycle.

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And when I left five years later, there

was a road there, there was the internet,

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there was mobile phone, there was cars.

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So a bridge, um, incredible

changes within five years time.

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And, um, this really, really took us

in Germany, where I come from, maybe a

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hundred years for, for, for such changes.

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And, and there it was in five

years time, it changed so quickly.

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So, yeah, so it's a very, very, uh,

fast, um, changing world and, uh.

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Most shocking thing was for me

to see a lift on a riverside.

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The river is called Kapwes.

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It's coming from the north, going south.

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And, uh, every day there was a big

ship going south with big locks,

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thousands of cubic meters from

rainforests and upstream, a lot of, uh,

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trucks and exocort, exocort craters.

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So, uh, the tools to cut down the forests

and to plant palm oil and I asked myself

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as a carpenter if we don't plant trees

in future so we can stop, doing carpentry

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and we have to, um, go and do metalworks.

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So this was actually at that time

already visible to me we have to

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do tree planting as carpenters.

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We can't just utilize

trees from the rainforests.

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Yeah.

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Um, Johannes, it's amazing

to have you here and to have

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this conversation with you.

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We were talking a little bit earlier

and about, you know, this region

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and we have a lot of listeners from.

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Around the world, actually, and maybe

you can explain where Borneo is, what

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kind of forests are there, because

I've been there and I traveled there.

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It's magnificent.

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And so maybe you can walk us through

a little bit what was there and

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what is going on there and how

bad it is for the environment.

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Yeah, Borneo was a rainforest in

the:

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So, after World War II then, after

the independence of Malaysia and

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Indonesia, so Borneo is an island.

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And three nations are there, so

Malaysia, Brunei, and Indonesia.

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The biggest part of Borneo

is called Kalimantan.

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This is the Indonesian part.

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The south and then the north,

it's Malaysia and Brunei.

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So I lived in central Kalimantan,

in the middle of the island.

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And um, in the 1950s, this

was occupied by rainforests.

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and only a few people.

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So this has changed due to migration.

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So more and more people came

from other islands in Indonesia.

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And, um, yeah, after World War II,

there was a big need, for, um, timber.

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The Indonesian government handed out,

concessions to, , Work on forests and,

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um, actually the regulations are good.

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You could only, cut, trees

bigger than 50 centimeters.

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So if you would do it sustainably to

do a forest management and it's good,

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but if you overdo, then it's bad.

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And mainly it's, uh, in three

waves, forest destruction

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happens in three ways, waves.

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The first is the forest concession, and

then you get in with trucks, then you

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have the roads inside it, and then, um,

there's a second wave of then, let's

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say, informal tree cutting, , the bigger

sizes, and then, uh, the third wave

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is, uh, very often, , complete land

clearing for agricultural processes.

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And this was then in the late nineties,

the palm oil business started, so

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nowadays it's not any longer the

problem is forestry, it's the.

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Palm oil.

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And for me, the biggest eye opening

was that to see that the EU invented

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or the EU said, we want to mix oil from

palm oil into our, um, into our system

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for our cars, you know, into our fuel.

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And then, , the first destruction

began after we have set in the

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EU, this, , fuel regulations with,

uh, natural oil within the fuel.

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So it is a 10 and a five.

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So it was us from the EU,

uh, grading that market to

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move, , rainforest into oil pumps.

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So it's, it was us grading that demand.

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Wow.

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And you've started to already shed

light on some of the problems that,

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um, that you encountered in Borneo.

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And one thing that I find very interesting

in your story is that you left Borneo at

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some point, um, before you started TRIO.

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And so what, what led you to leave Borneo

and what led you to eventually start TRIO?

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So yeah, the contract was

finished then in Borneo.

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It was a five year contract.

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Then I moved to the capital of Indonesia.

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So I was then working for a foundation

from Switzerland in Indonesia.

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And then I came back

to, , to my home country.

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And actually we started that time then.

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A nonprofit unit and do

tree planting in Borneo.

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This was then my wish after I came

back, the friends in Kalimantan in

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Borneo said, you should come back

and we should do tree planting.

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And then I collected some money.

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It was a nonprofit, collected some

money and went back to do tree planting.

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And, uh, this was then,

uh, Fairventures Worldwide.

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It's a limited company according to German

law, but a nonprofit limited company.

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And luckily we found some donators,

we found public money in order

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to do tree planting in Borneo.

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Yeah, we started tree planting,

but we did the monitoring on the

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paper and, um, actually we did

tree planting and then I sent a

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forester to the tree planting sites.

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And the first year we

planted about 70, 000 trees.

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And then I sent a forester from

Switzerland there to count the trees.

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And then one day I got a call, three

weeks later I got a call from him.

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He said, Hey, Johannes, uh,

there are only 22,000 trees.

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Wow.

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Uh, so then I, I said, yeah,

where, where's the rest?

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I don't know.

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So, and then we started digging deeper,

and the second year it was similar.

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It was below 50%.

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And it became clear to me we have

to monitor better than it's being

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done in, in, in, in the past.

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And there.

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it was clear to me, if you want to

bring trust in tree planting, , then

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we have to do a full census and

not just a sampling monitoring.

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So the single tree monitoring.

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, method was born and, uh, this is

what we do with a trio, a technology

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to monitor single trees in order

to, , have a , full trust and a full

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census that we see how many trees are

planted and how much carbon they store.

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I have a question, Johannes.

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Um, we've just had the worst wildfire

season that we've ever had in Canada.

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One of the conversations that has

been happening is about how densely

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the forests have been planted.

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And, um, and they're saying that

natural forests are more sparse, which,

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uh, means there's less brush to burn.

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And I just wondered about...

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about that, about when you're

planting, um, how do you manage that

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for future forests and, and such?

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Yeah, so you speak about the management

scheme or the forest cultivation and,

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um, It's definitely the most important

thing is that we plant with indigenous

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trees or with trees coming from that area.

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And then it shouldn't be a monoculture.

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And this is what we see even

in Germany in our country.

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So we have had the first forest fires.

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If you plant spruce on sites where there

are maybe oaks, the local tree species,

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then it's easier to burn, but yeah, we

will have forest fires as well, even in.

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And in that kind of forest, but yes,

in the rain forest, the natural rain

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forest is much more resilient to

forest fires, to floods and so on.

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So, um, it shouldn't be a monocult,

monoculture setting and yeah, so

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these forest fires we see it's

an increasing temperature, less

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rain, and then the resilience of

these forests, uh, not good enough.

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And I heard there are recent estimations

from these forest fires in Canada.

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That it's, , an enormous amount

of greenhouse gases, , where we're

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emitted , through that forest fires.

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And I ask myself, does it make sense

to plant trees on the other side?

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Uh, where we have the forest fires.

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And I say, yes, it makes sense.

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And, um, we don't stop.

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It's a drop.

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I know that.

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What we do, it's a small

drop, but we do it.

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Yeah.

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And we don't stop.

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Yeah.

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I would like to go back

to the tree monitoring.

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That's the very challenging part

because, uh, we know that tree planting

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is important, but then by the time

the, um, uh, carbon capture potential

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reaches its maximum, it should

probably take, I don't know, I'm not a

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specialist, but probably 10, 20 years.

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And as you said, Oh, well, you think

you've planted 70, 000 trees and then,

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and then there's Half of it is gone.

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So what's the solution?

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How do you monitor it?

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How do you, what's the, you're

talking about, technical solutions,

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so can you give us a little bit more

details about this technical solution?

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Yes, sure.

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So we started, uh, tree monitoring,

not for carbon estimation purpose.

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This was just for our donors.

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So we promised them, you give

us a euro or five euros a

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tree and then we plant a tree.

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And, we are not planting by ourself,

but our partners plant the tree

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and then we, the tree is there.

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So our donors, they expect that

the tree is there, they have paid.

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So we are responsible as a non

profit that the tree is theirs.

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And we speak about a

nature based solution.

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And we speak about nature, so

it's normal that trees disappear.

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If you go to the forest just around

you, you see small trees planted, you

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will find not all of them survive.

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There are floods, there are rainfall,

there are, it's a dry season, so it's

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normal that, um, you, what you plant,

you don't go to a hundred percent.

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, but this is what, what we need

to, Be transparent and our donors

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that time said, yeah, just report

aspect, how much trees these are.

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It's not so important that this

is a hundred percent fulfilled.

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So then you overblend and then you can

say we have a 50 percent survival rate

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or 80 or 90 percent survival rate.

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So it was more about that.

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And we started really

sending out foresters.

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With sheets and papers, and then

we, they, they get brought it back

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to the, to the office and the other

people set for two months just to

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put the data into the computer.

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So after the third year, then we

said, we need a digital solution.

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And, um, then we started with making a

test, the photo of each and every single

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tree, and then we have the GIS point.

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So the technology

nowadays looks like this.

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So.

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You can, you download an app on the

Google play store and then you just

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make a photo of each and every, the

farmer goes through the field and makes

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a photo of each and every single tree.

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And with our AI based allometric

formulas, so we then can nowadays

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calculate the carbon stored in

each and every single tree for the

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exact amount of the, of the carbon.

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And what we do as trio

at the moment, this.

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Increment of biomass is being paid.

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So we have people who

want to pay tree planting.

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So they paid a farmer on their

mobile phone, the increment of,

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of, of biomass, the Delta, who is

more compared to last year on the

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mobile phone of the, of the farmer.

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And we check with satellites, we verify

with satellites, if the trees are there.

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So this is the principle of the.

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It's much more complicated, but

the principle of the, of, of

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the tree monitoring nowadays,

so with the calculation of

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the carbon in the tree stored.

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Well, that's just incredible.

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If I may ask a follow up question on that.

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When you, for many of these tree

plantings, as they mature, as

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we were just discussing, not

all of them survive, right?

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Some of them have to come out

so that the trees can continue

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growing in their canopy.

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size and you have to thin it out to

let them keep successfully growing.

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Is there a methodology in the app that

takes into account you had planted

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trees at a thousand, uh, hectare and now

they've reached 10 years of maturity?

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So now we will...

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Cut out 200 of those and make it

800 trees per hectare Because that's

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the right management strategy for

the trees is that how does that

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taken into account then on the app?

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Where now instead of 800 trees

there are now or sorry instead of

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a thousand trees There are now 800

trees, but that is the right decision

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Yeah, that's a very good question.

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So, um, we do thinning so the tree

grows well if the crown has enough

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space and the light comes in.

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So as soon as the ground gets under

stress, so the tree grows, the crown

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is growing, then you start thinning.

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So, and this is, um, to explain to

the people, it's a bit difficult

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if you tell them cut out Thin some

trees, then you get a better yield.

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You say, Hey, why I cut out?

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I wanna have more trees.

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, they produce more wood.

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No, it's not like that.

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If you then take out, uh, some

trees, then you get more wood.

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So we have to work on a blood.

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So the ultimate measure is a blood.

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Let's take a hectare.

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And we plant at the beginning with a

spacing three by three, then you have

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about a thousand trees per hectare.

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And then after two years, after

three years, when the crowns touch,

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then you take out the small trees.

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And you do this twice or three times.

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And you end up then with about,

let's say, 300 trees per hectare.

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And then you do the harvesting

depending on the tree size, depending

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on agroforestry and between the tree

lines, actually, you can do your

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agricultural things if you don't use

like, for example, eucalyptus, they ask

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a lot of trees who are a lot of trees.

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Um, allowing, doing aqua, aqua forestry.

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So between the lines, you, you

plant food, so it's not competition.

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You can manage a forest, aqua

forest, not in competition to food.

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And this is the most

important thing I think.

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So both on the safe blood,

same blood is, is possible.

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So yes, trio goes on the.

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Ablo.

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You go around your field and it's a blood,

and then you see how you do the thinnings

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and it's natural thinning as well.

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Some of the trees will die and

then it's a natural thinning.

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Thinning.

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So yes, this we can take into account in

the app and it's not only an app actually,

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it's then an A backend, all the trees,

uh, on, uh, on our three year cloud.

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And then you find the trees on

the backend and you can manage

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the forest with the backend.

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That's wonderful.

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And do you monitor what, for the

thinned trees, do you monitor what

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happens to those, the trees that

are thinned out or, or what the,

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what they, what they're used for?

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So at the moment, the technology is only.

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Able, what we have at the moment

is just for the growing trees.

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Um, and we have developed a

standard, the pre release is out.

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So we will have a certified product.

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In, uh, November this year, and,

uh, we start working on a so called

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material standard, so it's extremely

crucial what happens with the biomass,

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uh, and how much of the sea stored

in a tree coming from the atmosphere

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goes back to the atmosphere, so we

need to the Work on that figure.

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So yes, we have to see what happens

with the, uh, with the pruning and

342

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with the thinning of the biomass.

343

:

And the ideal case would be transforming

the thin trees, for example, into

344

:

biochar and put it back into the soil.

345

:

And then the emissions, if you just

put the thin trees on the floor, on the

346

:

soil, then, uh, the sea content of the

thin trees goes back to the atmosphere.

347

:

So to keep this carbon stored then in

the soil, so this is then the material

348

:

standard where we go down and even

after harvesting, so it's very clear.

349

:

When we harvest the tree, we want

to have most of the carbon stored

350

:

in the tree, being a beam and then

stored, in a timber construction

351

:

building for another hundred years.

352

:

So then we have a raw material

for the circular economy.

353

:

Sounds fantastic.

354

:

Uh, I have a question, just clarifying,

uh, As I understood, the farmers

355

:

have, uh, rewards for each tree

that would survive a certain time?

356

:

And the other question I have, do

they have freedom to plant whatever

357

:

they want between the trees?

358

:

Yes, they have the freedom.

359

:

So we adjust our technology

to the needs of the farmer.

360

:

So we don't tell them what the

management system looks like.

361

:

And we don't own the trees.

362

:

We only get the right for the carbon.

363

:

They're owning the trees.

364

:

They're owning the food.

365

:

They're owning the land.

366

:

We don't own the land.

367

:

It's not our land.

368

:

, so it's the farmer's land.

369

:

So it's them to decide.

370

:

We have certain standards.

371

:

For example, we don't allow

eucalyptus to go into the system

372

:

at the moment, at least, because I

think eucalyptus does not need us.

373

:

Eucalyptus grows by itself and

it has certain negative effects.

374

:

Um, so this is what we decided, for

example, or we say at least two or three

375

:

different tree species on one hectare.

376

:

So this is what we give.

377

:

We have certain minimum criteria

and they get more money if they, for

378

:

example, plant 10 different tree species

compared to three different tree species.

379

:

So we, we can steer how much

money we pay to them based

380

:

on the biodiversity criteria.

381

:

So do you also educate them about

the different species and what grows

382

:

together well and all that stuff?

383

:

Yes.

384

:

So there's maybe one thing I have

to explain how we go for scale.

385

:

I didn't talk about this.

386

:

So TRIO is not reaching

out to farmers directly.

387

:

So TRIO is somehow a franchise

scheme where all tree planting

388

:

initiatives can plug in.

389

:

So we have tree plantings initiatives

in Indonesia and Uganda on this and

390

:

that island who work with farmers and

they educate the farmers, they use the

391

:

technology, they get the prepayment

from us and give us the monitoring data.

392

:

So it's somehow like a franchise

scheme where you can utilize to your

393

:

technology and to your standard in

order to plant trees and earn income.

394

:

So this is how we go for scale.

395

:

At the moment, only for tree planting

initiatives in Germany, Indonesia and.

396

:

Uganda, but our intention

is to open this globally.

397

:

So it's a franchising scheme where

these tree planting initiatives reach

398

:

out to farmers and educate them.

399

:

So it could be in the U.

400

:

S.

401

:

as well.

402

:

Ha ha ha ha.

403

:

Would be nice.

404

:

Ha ha ha ha.

405

:

We have a big tree farm, Ioannis, on

my family farm, and we are about to

406

:

embark soon on planting uh, I don't know

it in hectacres, but 60 to 70 acres.

407

:

Um.

408

:

Of trees, and we have another 100 plus,

uh, of, you know, 35 year old, pretty,

409

:

pretty large stuff, but I'm excited

to explore the technology to measuring

410

:

how much carbon we're sequestering

with the already grown forest.

411

:

We just did our first, uh, what is termed

a pre commercial thinning a little while

412

:

ago and did some of the same thinning.

413

:

Um, and I'm curious to see that

that growth rate as derived

414

:

from your AI powered algorithms.

415

:

Yeah, you could utilize, you need a card,

there is a card from Trio, this is what

416

:

you need, , and then you can download it.

417

:

So at the moment, everyone can

do tree measurements, and, uh, we

418

:

haven't set, and there is maybe one,

one thing I have to mention, so.

419

:

Tree species are differently growing

in different countries, and we have

420

:

different tree species in the U.

421

:

S.

422

:

compared to Brazil.

423

:

So it's a bit of work to calibrate

this app and all the stuff

424

:

behind to a certain country, and

it's about climate regulations.

425

:

therefore, it's a bit of work.

426

:

So you can use the app, um, everyone can

use the app to measure the tree diameter.

427

:

And certain species are in there,

but, uh, actually then we have

428

:

to open, if you're in the U.

429

:

S., we would have to open

just certain tree species.

430

:

So, it's full running in Uganda and

Indonesia and in other countries,

431

:

so it's still just a trial.

432

:

So, if you then really go for

commercial, then we would need to

433

:

make a deal and then say, let's...

434

:

Open these things in the U.

435

:

S.

436

:

and let's work on the U.

437

:

S.

438

:

species and all that things and

then microclimates and then open it.

439

:

So it's a bit of work to set up

a country office and then the

440

:

running scheme for a country.

441

:

Okay, well we'll talk

offline and, uh, and explore.

442

:

Definitely, yes, we should, we should.

443

:

Would be great.

444

:

Because I would wager we raise

Douglas fir trees and I would

445

:

wager those are not in Uganda.

446

:

No, they are not in Uganda, but they are

coming a lot in Germany, the Douglasphere,

447

:

because they are drought resistant.

448

:

So the Douglasphere is

replacing our spruce a lot.

449

:

So um, yeah, these kind of things.

450

:

So these allometric formulas, we would

the system and then make it available for

451

:

microsites because it depends on the, on

the microsites as well, the growth rates.

452

:

Um, I understand.

453

:

that the farmers will farmers

like Brian potentially could get

454

:

payment from planting trees, right?

455

:

Because you mentioned

prepayment earlier on.

456

:

Oh, yes.

457

:

How?

458

:

Yes.

459

:

So Great.

460

:

Because, uh, farmers get financial

incentive directly through your app or

461

:

platform or your company organization.

462

:

How does it work?

463

:

Because you talk about prepayment.

464

:

That's fantastic.

465

:

Yeah.

466

:

So in the tropics, in poor countries.

467

:

Afforestation will only happen if

someone puts money on the table.

468

:

Nobody, or not nobody, but not a lot

of people can afford to invest today

469

:

and wait for 10 years to get a harvest.

470

:

It's really unbelievable to see,

but in Indonesia you can harvest a

471

:

tree after 10 years with a diameter

of 40 centimeters, where in the U.

472

:

S.

473

:

it would take maybe 50 years, 60 years.

474

:

So it's...

475

:

growing incredibly fast.

476

:

So we have about a five times growth rate.

477

:

And on the other hand, it's

cheaper, you know, man, manpower

478

:

is cheaper in such countries.

479

:

So it makes sense to do tree

planting in the tropics where

480

:

you have rain all year long.

481

:

But if there is no prepayment,

this is not possible.

482

:

So how to make now a farmer who has

a hectare Um, how, how, how we enable

483

:

him to plant trees, uh, is on the one

hand that we say you don't lose the

484

:

full hectare, you just lose some rows.

485

:

You can do your, your, your food crops

in between the lines and you get a

486

:

certain pre payment for the trees.

487

:

Uh, you plant in rows between your food

crops and, um, actually our tree planting

488

:

partners, they pre finance the seedling,

they do the training, they look for

489

:

the eligibility of the project sites.

490

:

And then after the farmer is doing,

the farmer is then doing a picture of

491

:

each tree and then he gets this carbon

stored in the tree on his mobile phone.

492

:

So this is the idea.

493

:

And then if this really works

fully automated, it will completely

494

:

change the world because 500 million

farmers, , could then start replanting

495

:

on their one hectare and we would

have stored five gigatons a year.

496

:

And, and, and that is going to bring me

to, , something that you said in your

497

:

video at a TEDx event, and according

to you there, there are 900 million.

498

:

Actors of land available to plant

trees, which is very much enough

499

:

to capture one third of all CO two.

500

:

Um, and so my first question would

be how much of that have we used?

501

:

Um, because you know, you were just

talking about this technology and

502

:

it seems like, well, this can scale

and become the reason we would

503

:

probably use The bigger part of

the 900 million hectares available,

504

:

but how much of that have we used?

505

:

And, um, you know, asides this technology,

maybe you can go a little deeper into it.

506

:

What, how can we make sure that all

of the land is used to plant trees?

507

:

So this 900 million hectares,

this is a study from the ETH

508

:

from Switzerland by Bastien.

509

:

So this was published

in, I think, in:

510

:

So it got a lot of, um, publicity.

511

:

Maybe it's a bit too high, uh, but even

the bond challenge, which is an, an

512

:

international initiative by the IUCN.

513

:

Uh, they speak, uh, they want to

replant or restore 350 million hectares,

514

:

and there are other initiatives.

515

:

Yeah.

516

:

So there is a lot of land

available, which is fellow land.

517

:

So it's about restoration

and it's about fellow land.

518

:

So for example, in Uganda, you have 7

million hectares, which is fellow land,

519

:

which could be replanted and restored.

520

:

, and, , in other countries as well.

521

:

So nobody uses that land or it's

extremely minimalistically being used.

522

:

In our case, it's just a small drop.

523

:

It's, we started small.

524

:

So we, , the spin off was created,

uh, one and a half years ago, trio.

525

:

So we have started.

526

:

At the beginning of this year with

the first hundred twenty hectares,

527

:

we are now doing a thousand hectares

and we want to do a hundred thousand

528

:

hectares in five years time.

529

:

So it's still very small.

530

:

If you look, uh, especially if you look

to the US or to Canada, so where we have

531

:

very big, even Indonesia, the Amazon,

but, um, if this functions on a small

532

:

scale and the technology is then settled.

533

:

, then we can really, this can really

spread around the world and then

534

:

it's not any longer carbon project.

535

:

It's really tree planting.

536

:

Everyone could then get engaged

with a farmer, giving him the

537

:

money to plant the trees and he

gets, and she gets the data back.

538

:

This is my vision and this is our vision.

539

:

We just need to check.

540

:

And this is very important that the people

who plant trees don't cut down rainforests

541

:

and then plant trees to get money.

542

:

So there are certain criteria.

543

:

You have to check with satellites,

how is the historical thing of that.

544

:

So is the land ownership clear?

545

:

Does the government

allow to plant this tree?

546

:

Is then the tree usage

guaranteed for that tree?

547

:

Does it make sense to plant that tree?

548

:

There is a bit of a bit

of thought behind it.

549

:

It sounds easy, but it's, it's a

lot of stuff behind and it's about

550

:

a carbon regulations and so on.

551

:

That's incredible.

552

:

And I'm definitely sold on

that because, um, one of the

553

:

things that we talk about a lot.

554

:

On carbon sessions is how we

can have not just personal

555

:

impacts, but systemic impact.

556

:

And this looks like one huge revolutionary

stuff that can entirely change the system.

557

:

So we're in

558

:

This is good.

559

:

Yeah.

560

:

I may ask a follow up question.

561

:

One of the things that was striking

to me about your commentary a few

562

:

minutes ago about helping convert

fallow land is, um, and for some of

563

:

our team, carbon sessions team here,

they may recall a recording we did with

564

:

someone, uh, with a, a goat, uh, goat.

565

:

Rancher, um, in Tasmania, I think,

Tasmania, who had done a lot of

566

:

research on the, the, uh, ability

for carbon sequestration in even

567

:

just grass and soil, if it hasn't.

568

:

been dried out and, and went fallow.

569

:

And it was impressive amounts

of carbon that was being

570

:

sequestered into their soil.

571

:

And they did tests over many years

with a local university and explored

572

:

this from a soil science perspective.

573

:

And it was an impressive amount of carbon.

574

:

They were able to sequester in

healthy, uh, you know, grass

575

:

and low shrub type things.

576

:

In part because that, you know, they

were doing some other things to take

577

:

care of it and convert it from just

being sort of more dry, packed earth,

578

:

what we would call fallow into that.

579

:

And I wonder, that feels like

maybe in addition to the trees.

580

:

It feels like from some of what

you've described with these, these,

581

:

uh, farmers, in addition to the tree

carbon sequestration, maybe this fallow

582

:

land conversion is also achieving

an unmeasured carbon sequestration.

583

:

Yeah, you're speaking about soil

carbon and this is a rather new topic

584

:

and, um, It's very clear that you,

that with, with this biomass and,

585

:

and photosynthesis, even for grass,

so then carbon goes into the soil.

586

:

So this organic biomass carbon

is then, , transformed into soil

587

:

carbon, soil organic carbon.

588

:

And this is a very, very

important and a future thing.

589

:

So agriculture can help.

590

:

To remove a lot of carbon.

591

:

So what I have in mind figures from

one to two tons per hectare per year.

592

:

Uh, this is what we discussing in Germany.

593

:

If you're an organic farmer, if you

really work with organic, um, matter

594

:

and put it into the soil, so this

is then an additional removal of one

595

:

or two tons per hectare per year.

596

:

So, um, This is very important and if

we speak about forests and restoration,

597

:

, we target firstly ex forest land.

598

:

So there is a scientific

discussion that, savannah, the

599

:

savannah has its function itself.

600

:

This shouldn't be the first

target to be reforested.

601

:

So we should look where have

been forests in the past.

602

:

Uh, decorated forest and this forest we

restore before we go into other areas.

603

:

So therefore these 900 hectares

might be a bit too high.

604

:

There had been a scientific discussion

where they say, Hey, you can't

605

:

transform grassland into a forest.

606

:

Uh, so therefore from

this 900 go down a bit.

607

:

Um, and this, um, we start on X

forest land and rebuild forests.

608

:

So this would be the first measure.

609

:

And even our case, we don't measure

yet the soil organic carbon.

610

:

But this is an additional benefit, yes,

if you go for forests, if you let a

611

:

certain biomass, like the leaves and the

small branches put in on the soil, then

612

:

they can transform into soil carbon.

613

:

So these are the mechanisms.

614

:

It's a complex thing, so you

have to start with simple things

615

:

and then you move from there.

616

:

So there's a lot of additional potential.

617

:

And maybe let me say one word to

agriculture, so If we do measure, if

618

:

we measure, and this is the future, our

existing certificates, they can't, and

619

:

therefore the existing offsetting is

so under pressure and from my point of

620

:

view, the traditional offset, voluntary

carbon market offsets will disappear.

621

:

I'm very sure we will

not see them any longer.

622

:

They might, so we will have climate

projects, but it's not an offsetting

623

:

project, what will survive is the,

uh, what, uh, will be surviving is the

624

:

But we have to detect the emissions

occurring while doing the removals.

625

:

For example, if you plant trees, you

use a lot of synthetic fertilizer.

626

:

One ton, no, a hundred kilogram

of synthetic fertilizer has a

627

:

footprint of one ton of CO2.

628

:

So it might happen like for palm oil, you

use palm oil for fuel, but you use more.

629

:

The footprint of the synthetic

fertilizer might be bigger

630

:

because it's produced from gas.

631

:

Then you save them in

the fuel in the cars.

632

:

So this stupid thing we have to, to, to

skip and, uh, our, our regulation, we

633

:

have to detect, um, the emissions then by

the machines, by fertilizers, and we can.

634

:

We can, uh, add, for example, soil

carbon and that kind of thing.

635

:

So we are at the beginning of a completely

new, uh, calculation where we have

636

:

to calculate the net net removals.

637

:

And the same thing is with the machines.

638

:

If you build a machine, you should

look how much energy they consume

639

:

and then come to a net figure by

your chance or all that thing.

640

:

So it is a completely new.

641

:

Uh, science, uh, coming up at the

moment, I, I have a follow up question

642

:

to what you just said, as you said,

it's, the principle is very simple, but

643

:

the mechanism is very complex because

there's biology, there's money, there's

644

:

a lot of different things involved.

645

:

And so I'm just wondering how the,

how this whole thing is regulated.

646

:

Is there a central regulation body

for the, for this type of market?

647

:

or certification or whatever?

648

:

No.

649

:

No.

650

:

The carbon removal market is not yet

regulated and the offset market, the

651

:

traditional offset market, uh, invented

by Kyoto or started by the Kyoto protocol

652

:

should have been Revised by Paris, so

in Paris, uh, they got the, the task

653

:

to, uh, to rewrite the, the offset,

uh, things, offset markets, uh, because

654

:

all the countries are now, not all,

but many countries are now confusing to

655

:

how you deal between the nations and,

uh, Glasgow couldn't fix, we expected

656

:

that in Glasgow, so, um, this is not

yet fixed, even the voluntary carbon

657

:

market and, Yeah, you say you offset with

avoidance certificates, and this is the

658

:

biggest mistake from my point of view.

659

:

If you put a ton of CO2 into the

atmosphere, you can't balance

660

:

it with another avoidance.

661

:

You have to reduce, and this is the first

thing you reduce, and the rest you can.

662

:

Remove then.

663

:

So it's like rubbish.

664

:

If I open my window, I put out the rubbish

of my car window and I help someone else

665

:

in another country not put rubbish or,

or, or, or, so no, I stopped putting

666

:

rubbish out and if I have rubbish, I put

it in the right place and I remove it.

667

:

So this is the removal.

668

:

And if you speak about a removal.

669

:

It's then about a net figure, not

just this machine produces a ton of

670

:

CO2 of, of removals or this electric

car doesn't need the regulations.

671

:

I don't know in the States, in

Europe from day one, electric car

672

:

is, is, is a carbon neutral car.

673

:

It's not.

674

:

The reality here, you have to

drive 50, 000 kilometers, you have

675

:

to produce the car, the battery,

uh, and this you have to detect.

676

:

So there we need much more

clarity and transparency, so

677

:

this will completely change.

678

:

So, um, this regulation, the

EU is working on a framework,

679

:

, certifications, uh, like GoldCenter,

they try to come up with removals.

680

:

But we decided to go with someone new.

681

:

So we have now a standard set with

an organization from Switzerland,

682

:

Carbon Standard International.

683

:

They have a CC register.

684

:

So we do collaborate with them.

685

:

That is very interesting because, um,

it gives room for a lot of greenwashing.

686

:

And I think that what you're doing,

giving more transparency to, , uh, to

687

:

companies and, um, and farmers is, uh,

It's a great way to, our, our clients,

688

:

our organization will give us money.

689

:

They don't claim climate

neutrality with that.

690

:

They say, this is our first step

learning towards the future.

691

:

We, we have, we know that we will not

be able to reduce to zero, but our full.

692

:

Engagement goes into reduction,

but we try out now with removing

693

:

and they build up a portfolio.

694

:

They might buy some removals from

machines and we want to become

695

:

the best standard for nature

based removals from tree planting

696

:

because we go with the full census.

697

:

And not with a sampling and, uh, every

once a year we get the full data.

698

:

Wow.

699

:

That's incredible.

700

:

Um, one of the things that you, and

just to, just to jump on what you've

701

:

just said, I think that a lot of

companies can learn from, you know,

702

:

your approach to, to this is such a.

703

:

Purposeful approach driven by the results

and not just the Act or you know the

704

:

greenwashing side of things and I think

that's incredible one of the things

705

:

that you spoke about in in a video of

you that I saw was You talked about

706

:

like the value Chain of tree growing.

707

:

Um, I wish you'd talk a bit more about

that, but also perhaps the part that I'm

708

:

really looking forward to get to is where

you talked about navigating investments

709

:

with real social and environmental

impact, you know, because there's like.

710

:

You know, we look at it like this

is charity or some kind of nonprofit

711

:

cause, you know, but the way you spoke

about it, you talked about a whole

712

:

plate, like a plethora of possibilities

that, that works as far as business is

713

:

concerned, that this is not just, you

know, saving the planet, that this is,

714

:

there can be sustainable ways to grow

money and grow resources and establish,

715

:

you know, systems and people and things.

716

:

And so, um, would you, would you

like to talk about that a little bit?

717

:

Okay, let's start with the last topic.

718

:

So this was the reason why I left the

non profit organization and we said let's

719

:

spin off a normal limited company with

investment money because we saw with

720

:

donations only we can't go for scale.

721

:

Um, donations and public money are

good to do pilots and then you always

722

:

as a nonprofit person, you always wait

somebody else taking over that solutions

723

:

and nobody comes and takes it over.

724

:

So it was clear to me, I have to leave

and I have to spin off and I have to try

725

:

it by myself because nobody came to pick

this brain and to pick the solution.

726

:

So, yeah, so, and we had been lucky.

727

:

So we got some investors.

728

:

Who believe in that.

729

:

And, um, this is somehow impact

investments from business angels.

730

:

And now we are looking

for the second round.

731

:

So we want to scale a trio and we are now

opening our series A, uh, fundraising.

732

:

So we look for institutional impact

investors and it's a good business.

733

:

They get back their money and

the farmers get their money.

734

:

Environmentalist, uh, the

environment is protected.

735

:

So it's impact investing.

736

:

Speaking about the wood value chain.

737

:

Um, in future, you will see, I'm

very sure a carbon market who

738

:

deals with two different things.

739

:

It's not one certificate.

740

:

The one is the capture function

of the removal and the one is the

741

:

storage function of the removal.

742

:

So, and each and every single removal will

have a time tag on it because it's not for

743

:

the entirely, maybe not entirely removed.

744

:

So, um, there's a time span.

745

:

And a ticket on each and every

removal and it's split into two

746

:

things, capture and, uh, storage.

747

:

For example, if you speak about biochar,

biochar is only a storage function.

748

:

The capture comes from the biomass from

the tree, for example, or the straw.

749

:

And, uh, the same is with machines,

you capture with filters, and then

750

:

where do I put the carbon to store?

751

:

Below ground or whatever.

752

:

So it's always these two

components, and for how long

753

:

this carbon will be stored away.

754

:

And this is the biggest question

what we have now with the timber.

755

:

Or with tree growing, and the

biggest criticism, and we see it

756

:

in Canada, you mentioned, Jen.

757

:

So there might be forest

fires, there might be floods.

758

:

So the first thing is that we have

to do accurate protection, and

759

:

we have to open a safety buffer.

760

:

We know it's a nature based

solution, so we have to put some

761

:

trees into a safety buffer, and this

must be a dynamic safety buffer.

762

:

So we start with 20 to

25 percent over planting.

763

:

Only selling then only selling.

764

:

Let's say we plant 120 and

we sell only a hundred.

765

:

So if there is a loss, then you

can pick it out there and you don't

766

:

plant everything on the same plot.

767

:

You, you distribute in different

countries, different areas.

768

:

So, but then what happens with the

carbon captured in that biomass?

769

:

Biomass, um, this is then the

so-called durability or the

770

:

permanence of the carbon storage.

771

:

So it, we have to go down the value chain.

772

:

With the timber and see how much of

this timber is stored in construction

773

:

for another 50 years or 100 years,

what happens after that 100 years.

774

:

So we have done the timber mass flow

and we were shocked to see the figure.

775

:

If you measure the carbon content

of a tree and then you harvest

776

:

only about 10 to 15 percent can.

777

:

be stored in , timber construction.

778

:

Why so?

779

:

Because you have the root, for

example, the root stays in the forest.

780

:

You can't utilize the root.

781

:

Then you cut all the branches.

782

:

You only have the stem and

then you put it into a sawmill.

783

:

You have the sawdust

and all that leftovers.

784

:

You put it into the

blender, make a glulam beam.

785

:

So finally from carbon stored

in the tree, only 15 percent

786

:

can go into timber construction.

787

:

So what do we do with the rest?

788

:

Transforming into a biochar, for example,

there you have a lot of emissions.

789

:

Better would be much better would

be and Brian is an expert on that.

790

:

So the leftovers.

791

:

We should utilize, for example, for

insulation from wood, just press it to

792

:

pack it and then you use it as insulation.

793

:

Then you can store it in

the timber building as well.

794

:

So this would be even better

than producing biochar where

795

:

you have a lot of emissions.

796

:

So that kind of things, yes, we have to

go down the value chain and then we have,

797

:

um, an answer to this durability question.

798

:

And Johannes, if I, if I may ask a

possibly leading question, different

799

:

tree species might have different

figures for the amount of carbon

800

:

sequestration into construction based

on the nature of how, how they grow.

801

:

Yes.

802

:

So this is, um, about 50 percent

of the dry weight of a tree.

803

:

You see, yeah, the trees captures via

the photosynthesis captures the CO2

804

:

and the O2 goes back to the atmosphere.

805

:

So this, the C stays in the tree with the

H2O with the water, then it's being bind.

806

:

So then you have to see, so about

50 percent just, you just put, dry

807

:

timber on a balance, depending on the

tree species for sure, on a balance.

808

:

And we know this exactly.

809

:

And then you know how much C, C is stored.

810

:

In the tree.

811

:

And then you can convert C to CO2 is 3.

812

:

67.

813

:

Um, then you can convert how much is

CO2 is being stored or is being, let's

814

:

say, removed from the atmosphere.

815

:

So, yeah.

816

:

So, uh, it's about the weight.

817

:

It's about the tree species.

818

:

So each allometric formula

depends on the tree species.

819

:

And we have different allometric formulas.

820

:

Yes, but this we can exactly, if

we know the, the, the, the volume

821

:

of a tree, then we can exactly say

it's this and that amount of carbon.

822

:

So impressive.

823

:

We have now the app, we have the backend.

824

:

What we don't have is the automated

satellite verification thing.

825

:

So we're looking for fundraising

now, uh, to automate it, to do

826

:

automated prechecks so that we can do

automated eligibility checks before

827

:

the farmer can enter the program.

828

:

Is the land eligible and then

automated tree monitoring from above

829

:

or not the monitoring the monitoring

we think satellite is not enough.

830

:

The farmer should hug

the tree once a year.

831

:

He should go around and look

to the health of a tree.

832

:

And make a photo.

833

:

So it's good to have, and then to

see why is this tree growing good?

834

:

This is not growing good.

835

:

Then we check, but we validate with

the satellite other trees there.

836

:

So this tree automation, and we

haven't done the payment system

837

:

to the mobile phone of the farmer.

838

:

This is something we have to work on.

839

:

We have to work on carbon regulations.

840

:

We have to talk to the

governments like we do in Uganda.

841

:

Um, this might be a monitoring

system for the whole country where

842

:

they report with our technology to.

843

:

The UNFCCC to the United Nations

Framework for Climate Change

844

:

Convention and that kind of things.

845

:

And then, sure, we have

to work on education.

846

:

We have to work on collecting allometric

formulas, um, and that kind of thing.

847

:

So we want to grow with the next

step to new countries and technology.

848

:

This is the main thing.

849

:

Johannes, is the tree monitoring

done, you said, I think earlier,

850

:

using satellite imagery?

851

:

Is that, or are you using plane, airplane?

852

:

No, sorry.

853

:

Sorry.

854

:

Um, the tree monitoring is being done by

the farm of doing a photo of the stem and

855

:

we validate from above with satellite.

856

:

With satellite.

857

:

That's what I meant is the above

is satellite, not airplane imagery.

858

:

And then is.

859

:

Yeah.

860

:

You should do it with

drones at the moment.

861

:

The satellite.

862

:

Sometimes you have a lot of clouds

in countries, especially like, uh,

863

:

Indonesia, so it's not so easy.

864

:

Yeah.

865

:

Um, but yeah, the future will bring

us the satellites because drone

866

:

flying is a bit too expensive.

867

:

So from a business case, uh,

we work on satellite image.

868

:

We have to do, because on the longterm,

you can't fly with the drones once a year.

869

:

And that, and the technology you

want to build is, is some type of.

870

:

Algorithm to ingest that image and help

output A, is this forest still growing?

871

:

Is it healthy?

872

:

Is that, that's the goal

is to a technology enabled

873

:

processing of the visual image.

874

:

Yes.

875

:

Automated.

876

:

Okay.

877

:

That we can go with zero, mainly

zero costs then, and then we

878

:

can really, and this is maybe

one thing I forgot to mention.

879

:

There's a study out there who says

90 percent of the carbon money in

880

:

forestry doesn't go to the farmer.

881

:

Only 10 percent go to

the farmer at the moment.

882

:

So only a little bit.

883

:

So all the money stays with the

certificates, with the consultants,

884

:

with all that, uh, PDD things and so on.

885

:

And, um, in our case, we have the.

886

:

Um, we want to give the farmer,

um, 80%, so we want to turn it

887

:

around the 80 20 rule from 20 20.

888

:

So then the money goes to the farmer.

889

:

And so you need to reduce the cost

for maintenance to as low as possible.

890

:

Yes.

891

:

And it's not any longer a carbon project.

892

:

It's then a carbon product.

893

:

So and our technology will

be accredited and checked.

894

:

But there is nobody, nobody

needs to fly to each project and

895

:

look, uh, with the airplane, a

consultant once a year and so on.

896

:

So they look into the system, okay.

897

:

They pre check certain things, uh,

and, but then the system is upgraded.

898

:

And so the costs are going down.

899

:

Well, uh, I'm excited to chat after

our podcast, I worked on aerial image

900

:

ingesting for a big timber company called

Boise Cascade for a number of years.

901

:

Oh, wow.

902

:

So let's talk.

903

:

Yeah.

904

:

Let's talk.

905

:

You have to talk with my colleague then

because I'm not a technology person.

906

:

I have the luck that I have a co founder

who is really coming from that area.

907

:

So he's a software engineer.

908

:

Okay.

909

:

I'm excited.

910

:

And he has a lot of experience in that.

911

:

So he's doing our technological thing.

912

:

That's wonderful.

913

:

And there's, there's many amazing

technologies that have come out that

914

:

are, are ingesting this information

from visual imagery and outputting.

915

:

conclusions.

916

:

Um, it's really impressive technology.

917

:

Yeah, I think I, I agree with you.

918

:

So if you look a bit further down the

road, these things will be possible.

919

:

Maybe nowadays it's still a

bit difficult, but it's coming.

920

:

Uh, farmers use those

telephones and so on.

921

:

But if you go, two, three years further

down the road, then this will be possible.

922

:

I'm very sure.

923

:

So let's prepare for that.

924

:

Joannès, I'm very impressed by your

attitude, your approach, because, uh, wow.

925

:

You know, you started as a carpenter, so

you started working with wood, then plant

926

:

trees, then you have a technology company,

and then now you are, and I don't know,

927

:

lobbying or working with regulations.

928

:

So this is really, really impressive.

929

:

and I like your optimism,

you know, there's a problem.

930

:

So how can we find a solution?

931

:

And I think we need more people

and more projects like this.

932

:

So, well, and I'm very glad that

we're having this conversation

933

:

because, uh, I don't know if you know,

but, , Johannes works with my sister.

934

:

, actually, one of my sister

works with Johannes.

935

:

So I'm very glad we're

having this conversation.

936

:

Um, any, , final words, Johannes?

937

:

Yes, there is a final

word, what you touch.

938

:

So like you are doing, so in Germany we

have now activists who just sit on the

939

:

roads and block the roads because they

are so frustrated and nothing moves.

940

:

And I think there are so

many things to be done.

941

:

So just average people like me.

942

:

Um, so.

943

:

We go out, we think, and we keep on going.

944

:

And yes, it's a very big thing.

945

:

It's so complex.

946

:

Uh, but let's start with the things

which, which are possible and don't.

947

:

Don't think too much about the complexity.

948

:

If not, you will not start and

we start and it's not yourself.

949

:

It's a big team.

950

:

It's investors.

951

:

You need money.

952

:

You need clients.

953

:

You need.

954

:

Employees.

955

:

You need friends, you need eng get

engaged and you need people like you,

956

:

this podcast, so who spread the world.

957

:

And um, yeah, we can do

something and it's not late.

958

:

Like, like you, like you,

uh, put it on your, on your

959

:

podcast, but we have to do it.

960

:

And that's beautiful.

961

:

We need to be optimistic and we

are optimistic and there's hope.

962

:

So this is, um, always and we go further

and further and we don't, uh, yeah,

963

:

we stand our ground and go further.

964

:

Fantastic.

965

:

Thank you.

966

:

Thank you.

967

:

Likewise.

968

:

Thank you.

969

:

Love that.

970

:

Thanks so much.

971

:

It was a pleasure being with you.

972

:

You've been listening to Carbon

Sessions, a podcast with carbon

973

:

conversations for every day with

everyone from everywhere in the world.

974

:

We'd love you to join the Carbon

Sessions so you too can share your

975

:

perspectives from wherever you are.

976

:

This is a great way for our community

to learn from your ideas and

977

:

experiences, connect, and take action.

978

:

If you want to add your voice to the

conversation, go to thecarbonalmanac.

979

:

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980

:

and sign up to be part

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981

:

This podcast is also part of

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982

:

For more information, to sign up for

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983

:

and to order your copy of the Carbon

Almanac, go to the carbonalmanac.

984

:

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985

:

Be sure to subscribe and join

us here again, as together

986

:

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Carbon Almanac

When it comes to the climate, we don’t need more marketing or anxiety. We need established facts and a plan for collective action.

The climate is the fundamental issue of our time, and now we face a critical decision. Whether to be optimistic or fatalistic, whether to profess skepticism or to take action. Yet it seems we can barely agree on what is really going on, let alone what needs to be done. We urgently need facts, not opinions. Insights, not statistics. And a shift from thinking about climate change as a “me” problem to a “we” problem.

The Carbon Almanac is a once-in-a-lifetime collaboration between hundreds of writers, researchers, thinkers, and illustrators that focuses on what we know, what has come before, and what might happen next. Drawing on over 1,000 data points, the book uses cartoons, quotes, illustrations, tables, histories, and articles to lay out carbon’s impact on our food system, ocean acidity, agriculture, energy, biodiversity, extreme weather events, the economy, human health, and best and worst-case scenarios. Visually engaging and built to share, The Carbon Almanac is the definitive source for facts and the basis for a global movement to fight climate change.

This isn’t what the oil companies, marketers, activists, or politicians want you to believe. This is what’s really happening, right now. Our planet is in trouble, and no one concerned group, corporation, country, or hemisphere can address this on its own. Self-interest only increases the problem. We are in this together. And it’s not too late to for concerted, collective action for change.