Episode 62
Lights And Circadian Rhythm
Episode Summary: In this episode, Kristina shares with Jenn, Leekei and Brian some insights about how lights influence our circadian rhythm and nature in general
Lights are everywhere, yet, we don’t often discuss their influence on our humans, society, and the natural and built environment.
In this conversation, we discuss:
- the difference between natural lights and artificial lights
- the influence of lights on our circadian rhythm
- how to use and position the appropriate lights at various
- how lights can influence trees, birds and insects
For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org
Want to join in the conversation?
Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.
Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!
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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Jenn Swanson, Leekei Tang, Kristina Horning and Brian Tormey
From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves.
Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France.
Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US.
Kristina is working on design theory and using design process in everything. With a background in architecture, civil engineering and education, she loves research, play and co-creating. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.
Transcript
Hi, I'm Ima.
Speaker:I live in Scotland.
Speaker:Hi, I'm Jen and I'm from Canada.
Speaker:Hi, I'm Ola Vanji and I'm from Nigeria.
Speaker:Hello, I'm Leaky and I live in Paris.
Speaker:Hey, I'm Rod.
Speaker:I'm from Peru.
Speaker:Welcome to Carbon Sessions.
Speaker:A podcast with carbon conversations for every day with everyone
Speaker:from everywhere in the world.
Speaker:In our conversations, we share ideas, perspectives, questions, and things we
Speaker:can actually do to make a difference.
Speaker:So don't be shy.
Speaker:Join our carbon sessions because it's not too late.
Speaker:So, hi, I'm Lakey and I'm with.
Speaker:And so, hi . Uh, what are we talking about today, Jen?
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I'm just jumping into this conversation and I hear that we're talking
Speaker:about light and that's all I know.
Speaker:But we have a special guest with us today.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:We have invited Christina.
Speaker:Hi, Christina.
Speaker:Join us from, How are you?
Speaker:So tell us, Christina, what are we talking about today?
Speaker:Well, I love to talk about lights.
Speaker:About two years ago I went to those Permaculture conference and they
Speaker:had wonderful presentation about natural lighting and lighting, outside
Speaker:lighting, uh, street lights, and uh, Also how, uh, daylight and the
Speaker:natural light is different and how it.
Speaker:Influences all the plants and people and, uh, how it
Speaker:influences our circadian Britain.
Speaker:So it was really fascinating , and so I love to share some of it.
Speaker:. So natural lighting influences our circadian rhythm or the,
Speaker:the streetlights or both?
Speaker:Well, , uh, I guess both.
Speaker:Uh, it's, uh, it's really fascinating.
Speaker:I, that was one new information that we all know about rods and cones in
Speaker:our eyes, how they, the cones detect color and rods, shades of gray.
Speaker:So we're all familiar with that.
Speaker:But there's also.
Speaker:photosensitive, retinal ganglion cells, and those in our eyes
Speaker:connect to the circadian clock.
Speaker:So they don't see, they don't perceive pictures or colors, but they perceive
Speaker:light, and so that's why blind people can.
Speaker:go fall asleep when it's night and uh, and stay up during the day.
Speaker:So that was really fascinating for me.
Speaker:And those, uh, ganglion cells are the ones that really react to the blue light.
Speaker:And so that's why we react to the new, um, to the artificial blue light and
Speaker:have sometimes problems falling asleep because we break the cycle because, light
Speaker:is the only constant in the nature, uh, that , set up seasonal and daily rhythms.
Speaker:And so when we have a lot of lights in outside or in the cities, our brain
Speaker:doesn't react to it that it's night.
Speaker:So it takes long time for us to fall asleep.
Speaker:So that was fascinating, but also what I found out that the nature.
Speaker:Plants and animals have also sensitivity to the light.
Speaker:So, um, when we have a lot of lights in the cities or on highways or in the gas
Speaker:stations, the animals lose, uh, ability to sense if it's day or late a day or night.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:Light pollution, . Yeah, it's the light pollution.
Speaker:And we know about the.
Speaker:, if there is light pollution, we can't see the stars, but it's also in, we don't
Speaker:perceive that it's night in a a day.
Speaker:So also plants react to the lights.
Speaker:Uh, when you have, uh, street light next to the tree, you can see the.
Speaker:branches next to the light.
Speaker:Sometimes dry.
Speaker:The leafs go stay green, where the other part of the tree ha leaves fall off On
Speaker:that little piece of the tree, part of the tree, the, uh, leafs stay green and
Speaker:then they fall off in the wrong time.
Speaker:So, uh, the tree, a lot of trees also have problems and plants with, uh, artificial.
Speaker:, which I never thought it's possible, but do, do you know the reason why
Speaker:the, the, the leaves fall up when they are close to artificial lights?
Speaker:Because they, the light they have, they must have some kind of light receptors
Speaker:and they think it's a day, so they're, they react to the length of the day.
Speaker:So instead of having shorter and shorter days before the fall, , and
Speaker:that's the trigger that the leaves will fall and the side goes down.
Speaker:They don't have that information.
Speaker:So, uh, they, they think still it's, uh, summer and then, uh,
Speaker:and then everything freezes.
Speaker:So the sap freezes and the branches become brittle.
Speaker:And, uh, there are problems falling out for the whole tree weakening.
Speaker:I was just gonna ask, so do you know, uh, I know that here where
Speaker:I am, a lot of people like to put those solar lights in their gardens.
Speaker:Um, they absorb the sun in the day and then they light up the path, or
Speaker:they light up the garden in the night.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. Um, so is that not a good idea then for the plants that are around that light?
Speaker:Uh, yeah.
Speaker:, even gardeners, uh, the professional gardeners know about it because
Speaker:in nurseries they now are figuring out which plants can stand the
Speaker:nightlight more than the other plants.
Speaker:So they pick different plants for, uh, these places where there is
Speaker:a lot of, uh, artificial reli.
Speaker:Yeah, it's, uh, it's a problem.
Speaker:, the biggest problem is for trees because they, uh, they get damaged by the light.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's, uh, not only light cause a lot of, uh, we have to use a lot of
Speaker:energy to keep them litted, but, uh, it really creates havoc on animals and
Speaker:people and nature, even for the birds.
Speaker:Uh, when there are these, uh, Big laser beams going up to the sky for
Speaker:advertisement and all that stuff.
Speaker:The birds navigate.
Speaker:Also.
Speaker:The moon is their, the point they navigate around.
Speaker:So if there is this strong light, they get confused and.
Speaker:, they start circling that, uh, light and, uh, and a lot of them, I, I think
Speaker:I heard there was, in New York, it was a lot of dead birds when they had the
Speaker:laser lights in, uh, for after nine 11.
Speaker:So they had to turn them down.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:So that's, and the last one, which for me was the most disturbing,
Speaker:was about, um, , that insect gets confused and a lot of insect diets
Speaker:and then the birds don't have food.
Speaker:And, uh, the cycle is broken.
Speaker:So it's, uh, it's sad and I'm hoping that people will start paying attention,
Speaker:more attention to light now, not only because of energetic, uh, usage, but use
Speaker:of energy, but also how it influences.
Speaker:And at Christmas, of course, at least here, everyone's got extra light up.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:For Christmas.
Speaker:Everywhere.
Speaker:. Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, my friend, um, uh, she's a chron biologist and she was saying, yeah, no
Speaker:wonder everybody is angry and frustrated because all the lights, they, they, their
Speaker:circadian riddens are all off . Wow.
Speaker:And here I thought it was the cookies the egg knock
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, uh, research has been done for a long time.
Speaker:I think from fifties.
Speaker:They started, uh, research in the chronobiology and, and
Speaker:influences and people in nature, and we don't hear much about it.
Speaker:off.
Speaker:I know there are two organizations.
Speaker:One is Daylight Academy and the other one is International
Speaker:Dark, dark Sky Association.
Speaker:And so those two talk about these problems and how, what's going on.
Speaker:if anybody's interested.
Speaker:, yeah.
Speaker:Leaky.
Speaker:You live in a city?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. Yeah.
Speaker:And, uh, I barely see, um, I barely see the stalls in the sky because
Speaker:it's so much light everywhere.
Speaker:. But I'm just wondering,
Speaker:I've always lived in uh, in a place where this day and night, I'm just
Speaker:wondering if like, if I move to the North Pole where I'll be, there'll be
Speaker:light, um, like very, very long days.
Speaker:How my body would react given the fact that I've never been exposed to
Speaker:that kind of, , do you have an idea?
Speaker:Oh, I, yeah.
Speaker:Well, they suggest that in the morning to set up the, uh, clock, uh, the
Speaker:circadian clock is in the morning to go for a walk for 30 minutes outside.
Speaker:So even if the day is really short, uh, being outside for 30 minutes will trigger.
Speaker:The new information, then it's daylight and then it will hook into that.
Speaker:Uh, it takes few days if you, they did these, uh, uh, experiments in the caves
Speaker:and it took few days for people to get their, uh, chronological day daylight.
Speaker:Set up was a little bit off, but, um, it, it's natural thing.
Speaker:So our body does have that.
Speaker:Uh, I don't think, uh, we are born with it, but first few, few weeks,
Speaker:uh, I don't know exactly when, but we'll get the rhythm by, uh, living.
Speaker:Outside of the mother . . Mm.
Speaker:We we have, uh, w we have, uh, another person to welcome
Speaker:into the conversation here.
Speaker:Let's welcome Brian.
Speaker:He's, uh, he's come in and has been listening intently.
Speaker:I can see . Brian, what do you have to say today?
Speaker:? Well, happy day to you all.
Speaker:Um, uh, yes, this is Brian Toy.
Speaker:Very excited to join this, uh, this carbon conversation.
Speaker:Christina, very excited to meet you.
Speaker:Oh, thanks.
Speaker:And hear some of your thoughts.
Speaker:Uh, it, it's interesting you were just commenting on a few.
Speaker:That, uh, I've, I've definitely been learning about the past few years.
Speaker:I have an employee, uh, and coworker Bonnie Jro, who is an, an animal
Speaker:advocate in many fashions, and she's really been educating me and, and
Speaker:many of the people on through her work in the Audubon Society on.
Speaker:The, the light pollution as it relates to migratory birds.
Speaker:Um, and, and one of the, I think I will get this stat right, is that
Speaker:70% of like terrestrial, like our most birds, um, are migratory and
Speaker:80% of those birds migrate at night.
Speaker:Like, you know, it's not a thing that we think of as homeo stations as people.
Speaker:They're like, oh yeah, when migrate is at night, we don't think that.
Speaker:Here, in fact, that is the case for birds predominantly.
Speaker:Um, and, and the impact of, of light during these migratory times of year,
Speaker:you know, there's actually peak times of year at different seasons, um, where, and
Speaker:there's this movement to sort of like, at least at those times, if not also
Speaker:at other times, go turn the lights out.
Speaker:And I happen to live next to a couple hundred acre aud.
Speaker:Uh, uh, preserve Haah Society Preserve.
Speaker:And so it's one of these things that I learned about and was like, oh, I, I
Speaker:really need, I mean, I always, I really only keep like one outdoor light on
Speaker:anyway usually, but like, I'm glad I do and I'll turn that one off during
Speaker:these peak migrate migratory periods.
Speaker:Um, it's definitely very interesting to understand how much of an impact it.
Speaker:. Yeah.
Speaker:Just, just being aware of that.
Speaker:And another thing which I haven't talked about is at night when our melatonin
Speaker:kicks in, uh, and it tells us, okay, it's nighttime so we can go to rest to sleep.
Speaker:Now it's, uh, those ganglion cells are sensitive to the blue.
Speaker:They're not as sensitive to orange and red light.
Speaker:So when we set up our house with red lights to turn on at night when we
Speaker:go to bathroom or uh, they suggest to have it on about an hour, up to two
Speaker:hours before we go to sleep, then our.
Speaker:brain knows it's time to go to bed and we can fall asleep much easier to, uh,
Speaker:like they have a lot of these things.
Speaker:They have red glasses and special screens in front of
Speaker:the computers or for the phone.
Speaker:But what, for me, what was really interesting that when they did
Speaker:research on that, and you can be exposed to the blue light just
Speaker:for a second, just for checking.
Speaker:And immediately melatonin drops down and it never goes as high as it
Speaker:was before we check the light out.
Speaker:So I thought that was really interesting information.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:I'm still fascinated about the, uh, the plants because thinking of redoing the.
Speaker:yard area, and you know, our neighbors have rocks and ferns, and then these
Speaker:little lights that come on at night and it looks so pretty , but it's,
Speaker:it's nice that it looks pretty, but if it's not good for the actual plants,
Speaker:then , I'm gonna not gonna do that.
Speaker:huh?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and also for animals also, when, uh, They, uh, it was a story,
Speaker:uh, uh, in a, in small village.
Speaker:They put up, uh, streetlights, big streetlights in front of some
Speaker:houses, and the woman living in one house said nobody can fall asleep.
Speaker:And my dog, which was always guarding my house from the front Hume in the back and
Speaker:would never go in front at night anymore because, uh, of the light pollution.
Speaker:So, , it's, uh, the animals can really sense that.
Speaker:So, um, I'm just wondering how, how does this new piece of knowledge,
Speaker:how is it related to climate change?
Speaker:How can we, uh, how can we use that to help us in our
Speaker:understanding of climate change?
Speaker:I, I think the most important part is to turn the lights off.
Speaker:, . And there's enough studies that it, it doesn't have anything to do with safety.
Speaker:Uh, they did study on how much street is lit it and how, how safe
Speaker:it is and more light in the street.
Speaker:less safe.
Speaker:It is because they create shadows like the St.
Speaker:The white light, very strong white light.
Speaker:They, you have a spot and then there are shadows around it, so it's
Speaker:easier to have that than less light.
Speaker:Also, having lights at the, let's say few feet or a meter above the
Speaker:ground gives enough light for walking.
Speaker:But you don't use material for making big light poles.
Speaker:Uh, it does not destroy, uh, insect flying insect.
Speaker:Um, also if we give it to sensor, put sensors on it, uh,
Speaker:will not be on all the time.
Speaker:And, um, so all this, these things will save energy, not only energy.
Speaker:Uh, used for letting places, but also energy used for making steel, uh,
Speaker:creating, uh, materials needed for lights.
Speaker:. Um, also having red and orange lights at night, or at least the soft white.
Speaker:Instead of that bright blue light, it uses less energy.
Speaker:L e d lights.
Speaker:They're not in a nice color though, so l e d you can have any color.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:But you want to have, you want to choose.
Speaker:Different colors than the blue.
Speaker:Cuz another thing is when we wa, when we go from dark into light,
Speaker:uh, we cannot see color in the dark.
Speaker:and we cannot see much detail.
Speaker:We see shapes, but we, uh, our eyes not set up that we can see detail.
Speaker:We don't need to see detail.
Speaker:We just need to see roughly what's around.
Speaker:And when we lit up a place, it takes a while for our eyes to adjust.
Speaker:So that's why.
Speaker:These really bright lights don't make much sense because we walk through them and our
Speaker:eyes are not adjusted to it, uh, anyway.
Speaker:So I guess to persuade, um, politicians or, uh, city governments that it makes
Speaker:sense not to turn all the lights on and.
Speaker:Lower the lights and that way they'll save a lot of money.
Speaker:They save awful lot of energy and we're not breaking the natural cycle.
Speaker:So that's what I would say for climate change.
Speaker:For conscience, it's really important that we have trees and
Speaker:the lights, bright lights do not do well with tree . The trees don't
Speaker:do well with the bright lights.
Speaker:So, uh, and also, yeah, so I would say that, and, uh, I, I would also think
Speaker:that because, uh, insects don't do very well with, um, artificial lights.
Speaker:So, and we need insects, uh, to grow plants.
Speaker:So I think it's, uh, one way to relate that to climate change as well.
Speaker:But that's my 2 cents.
Speaker:That's, that's, that's a big problem.
Speaker:Oh, is it in?
Speaker:Uh, I could see it.
Speaker:Yeah, I could see it now.
Speaker:Traveling in a car.
Speaker:Few years ago, uh, the front wheel chain was full of bugs and the front
Speaker:bumper was all dirty from bugs.
Speaker:Now I don't have one bug on my front windshield on the bumper,
Speaker:and they say in Germany, they said about 70% of insights disappeared.
Speaker:It's a huge number.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:So what do we think?
Speaker:Are we.
Speaker:, what can we all do?
Speaker:How does this turn into sort of an informed, uh, you know, sort of
Speaker:influencing thing I know in my household?
Speaker:Christina, thank you for, for your commentary today.
Speaker:I look forward to letting my wife and children listen to this episode cuz in
Speaker:my house, um, I'm routinely turning off all the lights behind everyone and, or.
Speaker:You know, we'll sit and you know, and we'll be sitting and having dinner at
Speaker:a table and I'll have the light over the table on so we can see our food.
Speaker:But I'll turn the other lights in, sort of an open format space.
Speaker:The kitchen light and the living room lights I will turn off.
Speaker:And so there's only one section of this larger room lit.
Speaker:And there are definitely moments where my wife is like, why are you doing that?
Speaker:And they're all L e D bulbs and we really solar cord.
Speaker:You know, we, we actually push energy into the grid in an
Speaker:our house on an annual basis.
Speaker:So like, it, it's not about per se, energy consumption or money savings, but it's
Speaker:still like, I find it more pleasant.
Speaker:So , I, I, you know, and in part it's bitter and I like sort of soft, dim light.
Speaker:I want to go into my, I guess I'm now learning, it's about
Speaker:queuing up my sleep cycle.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I, I think that's, Maybe what would help that?
Speaker:Uh, our body is adjusted to natural light cycle, which is not only the color of the
Speaker:light, but also the position of the light.
Speaker:So for mornings and evenings, uh, it's good to have soft white light, not
Speaker:white light, and also to have it from.
Speaker:Lower positions, not from the ceiling, but let's say, uh, waist size, waist
Speaker:height and lower now, then in the evening and at night when before
Speaker:we going to go to sleep to, for, to navigate in the space we can have.
Speaker:orange and red light and that one being all the way at the, in the ground.
Speaker:On the ground or really close to the floor.
Speaker:And that one is something like fire.
Speaker:We, there was only light before there was the fire light, so that's,
Speaker:that's connected to the night.
Speaker:And then during the day, it's important to have a full spectrum
Speaker:light, the blue and purple part of the light, and that one creates focus.
Speaker:So if we want to focus something on constant, on something, it's
Speaker:important to have very strong light.
Speaker:And this, uh, Blue.
Speaker:Well, the best is daylight, but uh, if we have to have the blue and, uh, blue parts
Speaker:of the light are important for focus.
Speaker:So our brain reacts to that.
Speaker:And, uh, oh, and another thing, it's important inside is not to have,
Speaker:um, some light that would blind you.
Speaker:So if you have something.
Speaker:that you can see the light bulb.
Speaker:The really good one is to let the light reflect from the ceiling for
Speaker:the day or from the walls instead of ha seeing the light bulb.
Speaker:So those are, and so I, I see when you're talking about dinnertime
Speaker:to having more peaceful, uh, warm.
Speaker:White light and, uh, closer more on the food, not in the eyes.
Speaker:So having that light lower so it does not go in your eyes, but just go on your food
Speaker:and that creates more calming environment.
Speaker:That's the candle at dinner table.
Speaker:That's it.
Speaker:But we do need to see colors and uh, colors.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:. Yeah, I was about to go there.
Speaker:Jen . . I make a lot of candles in my house.
Speaker:I do too.
Speaker:I'm admitting to another, another hobby.
Speaker:You know, I buy, I buy wax by the 15 pound box.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I love candlelight in the evening.
Speaker:And, and ha We also run around and turn all the lights off.
Speaker:And it was funny cuz our guests left this morning and all the lights in the
Speaker:guest room were on and I thought that's like, it's just unusual cuz I mm-hmm.
Speaker:. I, we always turn, turn off lights and we're quite, we're
Speaker:quite picky about that as well.
Speaker:But, um, yeah, at night it's interesting cuz I like to have just one lamp on and
Speaker:a candle lit be curled up on my couch and at nine o'clock for some reason my dog.
Speaker:Is ready for bed at nine o'clock.
Speaker:He just knows.
Speaker:And he, he has the buttons that that, that you press to make words.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And he goes over and he presses all done, all done
Speaker:Which means that it's bedtime people . But it's that, that whole
Speaker:animal knowing right of the rhythms.
Speaker:And it's bizarre.
Speaker:Cuz at nine o'clock he knows . And tells us that it's time for bed . Mm.
Speaker:Well done . That sounds perfect.
Speaker:And also in the morning when you go out and walk the dog in during the daylight,
Speaker:first half an hour, it's perfect.
Speaker:Set up for a circadian time, time to start concentrating and focusing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Uh, Christina, can I go back and ask a question on something?
Speaker:I, I'm recalling at the train station that I traveled from here in my hometown.
Speaker:Um, they're, they've been redoing things and they're, they're
Speaker:redoing the lights presently.
Speaker:And I actually, this, this just popped back to my head.
Speaker:I remember noticing that the fixture that has been there for a
Speaker:long time is, uh, you know, maybe it's two and a half feet across.
Speaker:, you know, it's, it's a, it's a big old classic lamp post new, all along
Speaker:both sides of the train track and, um, and now the fixture they have
Speaker:up is maybe only six inches wide.
Speaker:I mean, it's a, it's a much smaller and it's clearly an
Speaker:l e D versus the old one is.
Speaker:I don't know if it's um, halogen or mercury or like what exact technology
Speaker:it is, but any, any thoughts like, I'm just sort of pausing and thinking about
Speaker:myself as like a citizen cuz they actually did some surveys to the writers of,
Speaker:uh, the Metropolitan Transit Authority MTA here in the New York area, did
Speaker:surveys of what people wanted to see.
Speaker:all the, you know, in the, in, in refurbishment, in, in the work being done.
Speaker:And l e d lighting was one of them, but I didn't pause and think
Speaker:about the directionality of it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So like sort of down and soft versus up.
Speaker:And I, and I didn't, Think at the time about sensors,
Speaker:about the timing of it, right?
Speaker:And sort of like, is it on all, is it on 24 hours a day only?
Speaker:Only with a light sensor, only with a motion sensor.
Speaker:I didn't think about those things as feedbacks.
Speaker:Any, any, you know, sort of summarizing commentary.
Speaker:I wonder for our listeners, , if that's a, if they have opportunities to share
Speaker:that feedback into their ecosystems, whether that's their own community
Speaker:or their own company or those things.
Speaker:Any, any specific feedback on, you know, sort of like Yeah, they're,
Speaker:um, practices as it relates to that.
Speaker:They do have, uh, very specific, uh, suggestions.
Speaker:Uh, what, what's the best practice and, uh, from.
Speaker:. The part I understand, which I'm not sure if people would go for it,
Speaker:but it sounds like if the light is warm and reflected and or orange
Speaker:and red, that will work at night.
Speaker:But if we have red, uh, train stations, I'm not sure if people would not
Speaker:connect it to the red light District.
Speaker:. So, Uh, but it's, uh, yeah, it would be important.
Speaker:And the orange lights are much healthier for us and more
Speaker:calming and, uh, color spectrum.
Speaker:And the ideal would be instead of having it in the top, having
Speaker:it near the ground so it doesn't go in your eyes, but it lets the.
Speaker:Sidewalk or let's the floor of the station, not the whole space.
Speaker:I will say I was just in a building, um, uh, pen One is a newly, uh, new, newly
Speaker:designed building in New York City, and the walkways had the handrails, but
Speaker:the lighting in the area was actually on the underside of the handrail.
Speaker:and it was very pleasant because I could see very easily and see where I
Speaker:was walking and you know, but it was, I didn't see the source of the light at all.
Speaker:It was underneath the handle.
Speaker:Um, but the space was still bright enough, but it was coming.
Speaker:And I, I, I did notice that this new design aspect, yeah, that would be a,
Speaker:there is one bridge in Prague, they did the same lighting when they, uh,
Speaker:use the new science and new definition.
Speaker:What's healthy like and what is.
Speaker:something responsible.
Speaker:I would say , that you think of other things than just old habits.
Speaker:But I think also culturally we need to change thinking.
Speaker:Um, the idea that everything is litted, that equals safety.
Speaker:I think that's the biggest hurdle to over.
Speaker:Can, can I share something?
Speaker:Um that was related to, uh, Jen's question about, you know, you live in the city?
Speaker:Yeah, I live in, in the city in Paris, and that's, I have very little control over
Speaker:the, the public lighting on the streets.
Speaker:And it's something that's, it's needed.
Speaker:I'm sorry to say that, but, um, because.
Speaker:Um, because, you know, because of the, of the cost of energy in Europe,
Speaker:uh, that has coed, they, uh, there are some small cities that have, um,
Speaker:decided to switch off the light, uh, like you saying, from uh, 10 o'clock.
Speaker:But the problem is that , I, I love, um, um, robberies in shops.
Speaker:and because there's no lighting, there's no, it's, it's very easy for fifths
Speaker:to, you know, to go and rob, rob shops.
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:I think it's also important to have some lightings.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, People, there was some study done and they seem, it was, the robberies
Speaker:and violence was not, did not escalate in the places where they turn off the lights.
Speaker:Well, this is something I heard on the radio the other day, it's because there's
Speaker:no light and so, , um, you know, fifths can just, you know, walk and, and do
Speaker:their stuff and then get away with it.
Speaker:Well, you can have lights, uh, sensors.
Speaker:So if somebody walks towards, uh, the place or that was the solution towards
Speaker:the shaft, that was the solution.
Speaker:That was, yeah.
Speaker:That, that you can turn, which is, which makes sense that, yeah, if you want, but.
Speaker:. Yeah.
Speaker:So, so you have all those options of the sensors that, it's like in a
Speaker:lot of bathrooms they have that when you walk in, that light turns on.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:. So the same thing at night.
Speaker:Only problem if you have too many animals.
Speaker:It goes on when the animals pass through.
Speaker:So , yeah.
Speaker:Maybe have it, uh, set up.
Speaker:So, Only turns on for a big animal , not for the tiny animal.
Speaker:We have a light in our house, one light in our house that does that, and
Speaker:sometimes it goes on for no reason.
Speaker:Yeah, it's like ghosts, . But, but, but I work, I work in a new building and
Speaker:you walk in and the light comes on and then it will go off after a few minutes.
Speaker:And sometimes I'll walk into, you know, my office here at home and wonder.
Speaker:Dark . I forgot I have to turn the light on.
Speaker:I guess , it's all what we get used to, but I think that's a good solution for
Speaker:sure is to have lights that sensor lights and also so we're, when they were also,
Speaker:we're to be aware of that when we walk between, uh, dark places and light places,
Speaker:that it takes a while for eyes to adjust.
Speaker:Takes pretty long.
Speaker:It takes substantial amount of time to really adjust to
Speaker:the bright light from dark.
Speaker:So yeah, it's feels like, uh, what can we do?
Speaker:I, I feel first to, uh, so people are aware that it's that light,
Speaker:artificial di light does influence her.
Speaker:and stress and health and uh, also to really publish all the studies
Speaker:about safety because there has been enough studies done about safety that
Speaker:it's not as critical as we believe.
Speaker:Um, and.
Speaker:I think in, uh, in the countries when they don't have electricities in the villages
Speaker:and, and, um, the, the, I think crime.
Speaker:Does not as much depend on light as we believe . So I, I think to look up
Speaker:the studies and see what the reality of it is and uh, and if the light is
Speaker:real deterrent, how many break-ins are in the places where they don't have
Speaker:the light and how many compared to places where they do have the light.
Speaker:Um, I think that's one thing to look into and, um, and figure out what is important
Speaker:for us to change our habit and the perceived ideas, what we have compared to
Speaker:re be relaxed and, uh, have, um, different environment in the house than we are used.
Speaker:. That's good.
Speaker:I'm pretty shocked that there are some people that don't turn up the light
Speaker:when they leave a room because I've been proud to turn up the lights because
Speaker:of the, because it costs money, so
Speaker:I'm Me too.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Are people that don't do that, but yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, I think it's a habit.
Speaker:I think it's that feeling of safety and, uh, I think it's shifting the emotional
Speaker:shift of the habit because I, I did not use to turn off the lights as much.
Speaker:My mom used to turn off every light as, and it was ingrained
Speaker:in her that that's what she do.
Speaker:And, uh, then I learned about the lighting and I started turning off
Speaker:the lights, not because to save, uh, electricity or save money, but
Speaker:because it made sense and mm-hmm.
Speaker:physically and emotionally.
Speaker:And, uh, yeah.
Speaker:So it, it reminds me when 20 years ago, uh, I found out that if all women.
Speaker:Um, stop buying cosmetics for two weeks.
Speaker:The whole industry will collapse and just that information, just that
Speaker:information, I felt so empowered.
Speaker:by that and I did stop.
Speaker:I started using different things and uh, and it was so easy to shift.
Speaker:It was such a jump to shift from buying all this French cosmetic and very
Speaker:special expensive feel good stuff.
Speaker:into buying food for cosmetic and, and it was just that little
Speaker:information made me feel empowered.
Speaker:And I'm hoping with the lighting, if people get feeling for the light, how
Speaker:it, how much influence it has on our health that maybe they can shift and
Speaker:start thinking about it differently.
Speaker:It's a little bit hard to have it quickly changed because if you set up
Speaker:your house with the natural lighting, the low, um, orange and red, medium warm
Speaker:and the high reflected ceiling, white light for concentration, it takes up to
Speaker:six months before people really can see the difference and feel the differe.
Speaker:And feel the change in their sleeping.
Speaker:So it does take little while, but, uh, it's worth it and
Speaker:it's good for environment too.
Speaker:I'm going to experience that in my bedroom and try to set some, uh,
Speaker:orange and red light on the street.
Speaker:I'm sorry, on the floor, on the street.
Speaker:Erase,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:It's a cultural.
Speaker:She's gonna sleep on the street now,
Speaker:No, no, no.
Speaker:Cause I've been experiencing some, uh, sleep problems lately and, uh,
Speaker:I have a bad habit, which is to look at my phone before I go to bed.
Speaker:Like, no, not before I go to bed.
Speaker:When I'm in bed, that's one of the last thing I do, which is a very bad habit.
Speaker:I'm trying to change that, but I think I need to add, um, some, um, orange and
Speaker:red light on the floor in my bedroom to improve my, to help me improve sleep.
Speaker:So that's, yeah, that's, that's also, you can buy these glasses.
Speaker:You can buy these glasses.
Speaker:They.
Speaker:Stop.
Speaker:All the other lights only keep you can it, they're these red glasses you can put on.
Speaker:So they will filter the blue light, but they need to be, they have, they
Speaker:need to be like, almost like goggles, so the light doesn't go from the sides.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:But they, they do.
Speaker:I'll, I'll leave, uh, I'll leave some.
Speaker:, uh, on the site for the, for the companies and the, uh, places where
Speaker:people can get more information.
Speaker:. Great.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:This is so great.
Speaker:Th this has been great conversation, Christina.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing all of that.
Speaker:There's so many ideas swirling around right now that have to
Speaker:I have to think about this.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I hope it was okay.
Speaker:, no, it was great.
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