Music, Climate Change and the Environment

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Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

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A podcast with Carbon Conversations

for every day with everyone

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from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

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can actually do to make a difference.

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: 00:00:33

So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Hi, I'm Leakey.

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Hi, I'm Olabanji.

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Today we're talking about something

that is going to sound a bit unusual.

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We're talking about

music and climate change.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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What do you think, does music have

anything to do with climate change at all?

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I think, I would say nothing and

everything, you know, nothing

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because it's, music it's art, um,

so it's not something that you can

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touch, it's not something tangible.

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Maybe you can change the way we

play from distributed music, make

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it more environmental friendly.

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But first I would say nothing, but

then I would say no, it has a lot to

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do with climate change because music

is a way like all forms of art to

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influence people and change culture.

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So I think it has a lot

to do with climate change.

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It could be a powerful tool.

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Yeah, I absolutely agree with you on that.

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And I mean, at first, just like

you said, I was like, nah, there's

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probably no relationship between

music and climate change, but

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music is very big part of culture.

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Yes.

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And influences the way people behave

very, very much so that You know, for

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example, you could find people that

are very much influenced by a genre

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of music dressing in a type of way.

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They could dress some way,

for example, hip hop music.

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If you see someone dress a type

of way, you might predict with

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a great level of accuracy that

this person listens to hip hop.

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Because they the exact way

they see the hip hop artists

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dressing in the music videos.

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There was this dressing some,

some years back, I think they

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called it 50 cent or something.

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It was just some baggy jean,

tight t shirts and a scarf.

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And people wore that to identify

with that genre of music and

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sometimes even an artist.

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So looking at it in that light,

I think you're very correct.

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Like music.

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That ability of music can be

used to communicate, to convey

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messages and to influence behavior.

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Yeah.

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I think that, I mean, we're talking about

music and music is very broad, but if

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we talk about singers in groups, um,

pop singers or rap singers, all kinds

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of singers, they can become an icon.

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And an influencer, and they have a

very, very big role to play when they

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become an influencer on how people

behave, there is this big discussion.

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And I'm sure that you have heard about

it, that soccer players, they're not

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musicians, but they're soccer players.

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They could play a very big

role in influencing how the

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youth perceive climate change.

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Because they have such a strong

influence on people, on the youth.

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And, uh, so that's why there's

a lot of criticism on, you know,

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how some soccer players take a

private jet to, on the and all that.

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They could do it, but it's not because

they can do it that they should do

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it because they have a role to play

to, , uh, to show a good example

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on what is responsible or not.

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Yeah.

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That, that is very, that's very care.

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Remember on one episode

of, , this podcast, we talked

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about Leonardo DiCaprio.

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And a lot of the efforts that he

was making to convey messages to

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the public about climate change.

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I went to his page and I even learned a

couple of things about whales and things.

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And you know, if Leo is posting

it, then millions of people are

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accessing it and they're reading it

and they're learning more about it

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and they're becoming more conscious.

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And so he's using this platform and the

access that he has to, you know, propagate

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the idea And that's also true in music.

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I think I read an article, I think

it was by MIT, and they said that

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music has been shown to encourage

altruism, some sort of selflessness.

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You would even go to YouTube

sometimes, and the videos there are

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fundraisers for specific causes.

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So.

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I remember John Legend in one

of his videos during COVID gave

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out all the revenue from that

particular video on YouTube.

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You'd actually see it right there.

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It's a fundraiser.

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There's a tag on the video that shows

fundraiser that all the funds coming

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from that video is going to specific

causes, usually nonprofit, and that

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could also be way of empowering

or advocating for climate causes.

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One thing I find particularly

interesting is that in addition to

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The artist being an icon and being

someone with influence, they could

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even do that through the music as well.

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In the lyrics of the songs.

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Yeah, in the lyrics of the songs, and

that'll be directly communicating.

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You know, when, when I was

younger, I would learn rap

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songs from beginning to the end.

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I would just know those songs,

would listen to them over and

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over and over and over again.

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We enjoyed them.

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And you know, it's, it's such a

great opportunity to sleep in some

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of these things because music is

known to affect behavior in somewhat

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an unprecedented way, right?

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Music makes you feel things.

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You would feel certain types of way

from listening to certain type of songs.

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So sleeping in lyrics about maybe

statistics or something about climate

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change could be very, very helpful.

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Especially to people that do not

consider it as something at all,

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and even people that consider

it as something would spot it.

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Funny enough, I think this was at a

stadium, they were doing a survey,

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and they found out that 90 percent of

the people present there knew about

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climate change and were at a level

knowledgeable about climate change.

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And at this rate, it's not just about

knowing because it's like, well,

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the message is actually starting

to get across a lot, probably more

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ways to trigger people and make them

feel responsible for the ecosystem.

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And so yeah, lyrics in there, like

you said, can be very helpful.

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I can just imagine how Jay Z

would put a line about climate

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change because he's so poetic.

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If he slips in that line, it's going to

be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is great.

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And there's a whole audience

waiting for that kind of stuff.

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But maybe he doesn't care.

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Yeah.

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Maybe he doesn't.

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Yeah.

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But talking about, you know, the

lyrics, I just remember, when you

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want to teach a kid to do something.

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There's a lot of songs to teach.

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Kids do things, you know, how to

brush teeth or how to, you know, how

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to, I don't know how to, to play.

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everything is like a single

long song to teach kids.

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Yeah.

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I think, songs and, and, um,

and music is very powerful.

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And actually when you suggested

this, uh, this topic, I, of course I

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Googled and um, and I googled, okay,

music and climate change in French.

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And then I realized that I was listening

to a lot of singers, French singers, who

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have released songs about climate change

in the 90s, because in the 90s, I used

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to listen to rap music, \ , and those

are French rappers, and I don't listen,

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I don't listen so much to rap music

anymore, so I don't know what rap music

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is about today, but when I was When I was

younger in the 90s, actually, when I was

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young in the 90s, um, and I was listening

to rap music, I realized that there

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are a lot of singers that are rapping

about environment and climate change.

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And, um, and I didn't realize that,

I mean, I know all the songs and,

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uh, but I didn't know that it was, I

mean, I know that they were talking

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about the environment, , but, um,

it was more about the ozone layer

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and biodiversity and all that.

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But, um, you know, it was just normal.

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Yeah.

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I don't know how it is today.

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Well, I certainly hope that more musicians

would actually consider doing that as

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well because it'll be very helpful.

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That is one way that we can get

the system to Well, I wouldn't

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say change, but that is one way we

can greatly influence the system.

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You were talking about kids and how they

learn to do a lot of things by singing.

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\ and one of the reasons that kids learn

things, you know, by learning the

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songs and sort of practicing what's

in the song is because it's easy.

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They remember those things

faster, it's more fun.

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And so it's like, A, B, C, D, E, F, G,

and, and then they keep going and going.

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And, you know, they learn to tidy their

shoelaces, they learn to dress up, they

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learn to do all sorts of things and

knowledge at that age hardly goes away.

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So it's one of the great ways that, that

kids, that we can indoctrinate kids.

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Well, I wouldn't say indoctrinate,

but, you Plant a sense of awareness.

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Yeah, we can teach kids to be

conscious of the environment.

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Don't do this here.

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Don't do that here.

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If you are here, do this.

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Like there's a ton of beautiful songs that

can be written and taught in schools to,

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to get these kids to be more conscious.

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Yeah.

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And so I, I think that whilst it looks

like there's absolutely no connection

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between music and climate change.

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There's a whole lot.

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Here's a funny thing.

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About 90 percent of, and I read this

name in an MIT article, about 90 percent

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of MIT students are also musicians.

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Oh, really?

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That's a lot.

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\ , that's a huge proportion.

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That's virtually everybody at MIT.

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Wow.

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Well, I would assume that what

they mean is that everyone can

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either play a musical instrument or

sing, but this article is by MIT.

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And they say 90 percent of their

students are also musicians.

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That's very interesting.

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Yeah.

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And what about playing music

and distributing music?

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Well, okay, we can start with the elephant

in the room, which would be the tours.

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Yes.

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Right.

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So.

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The artist releases an album and he's on

tour for another year, like a whole year.

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Yes.

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And traveling with the crew and,

and equipment and everything.

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And everything and, and gathering

crowds in different places.

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So well, that's, that's

one guy right there.

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I wouldn't say that that's a

huge contributing factor to

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the global climate crisis, but.

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Right.

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But it's definitely something

the other part, like you said,

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I don't know if there's much as

far as distribution is concerned.

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Oh, distribution, it used to be physical

thing, you know, CDs and, uh, and LPs.

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And today, even though we're going back to

LPs, but today it's, um, I think I don't

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know a lot of people buy CDs anymore.

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Yeah.

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People don't buy CDs generally anymore.

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Yeah.

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So that's less physical stuff.

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Yeah, and I, is that

better for the climate?

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Um, I would assume so, but I don't

know what, the carbon emission

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from the streaming services.

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Yeah.

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Like the servers and the rest of them,

because I know once we talked about, about

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cryptocurrency and how much that is such a

huge thing with emissions, but I wouldn't.

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I don't know about servers and how the

streaming part is done, but I would

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also assume that it's actually better

than, than traveling to the store to

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buy a CD or, or any of all that stuff.

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I think a good rule of thumb would be to

download the song or the piece of music

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on your device and then listen to it.

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That way it doesn't have

to go through the network.

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I just assume this, this

could be a rule of thumb.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I guess that that should pretty much

just work for all your favorite songs.

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So download them, the ones you

listen to the most so that you don't

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have to keep going back for them.

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And that way you don't place a

demand on the server to provide

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the music for you all the time.

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Yeah.

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But I would like just to go back to

the tour and, um, and I know, I mean,

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You say that, , it might not be a huge

contributor to climate change, but

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yeah, in that realm, everything counts.

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And so there are some bands that have

been doing some very interesting stuff.

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Like I don't know if you

are familiar with Coldplay.

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Yeah, I know Coldplay.

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I don't know if they're still on the

world tour, but um, last year they

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were touring the world and on the

website you can see a lot of funny

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initiatives to ensure sustainability.

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Of the tour, like there was like

the dance floor where you can dance

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and then the energy from the dance

floor is reused to power part of the,

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of the stage or the entire show of

the stage or something like that.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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So I find it quite funny.

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You know, to make people dance and.

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Then it generates energy , and

then use that to power the stage

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or the song or the performance.

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If you go to on the website, there's a

lot of initiatives about sustainability

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and how they are trying to improve things

, and try to reduce the carbon footprint.

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Wow, that's definitely commendable.

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That's beautiful.

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That's worthy of emulation.

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If they're doing that,

I think that's great.

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So people dance and then the stage

is powered or some lights are

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powered or something is powered and

reduces reliance on, on fossil fuel.

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Yeah.

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, and also another initiative that I find

quite interesting and I don't know how it

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will evolve in the future, but last year,

and actually I think it's still going on.

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I went to, um, an ABBA concert in London.

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I mean, I live in Paris, so I

just have to take the train to

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go to London and, and see ABBA.

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And I don't know if you, you know ABBA.

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It's a, it's a Swedish group that was

really popular in, uh, 40 years ago.

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They split about 40 years ago,

my parents used to listen to

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ABBA, so I'm a big fan of ABBA.

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And when I found out about

the concert in London, I.

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Bought my tickets, but the way they're

doing it is that you're doing it

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like with some sort of um They, they

call it ABBAtars, like ABBAtars.

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And basically, it's a

concert of holograms.

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Wow.

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But it was really,

really, really well made.

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They have planned , to hold this

concert for half a year, but the

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thing is, it's still going on

because it's so, so well made.

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You really feel that you are

seeing the real ABBA, ABBA members

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performing in front of you.

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But they're not there.

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They're not there.

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It's like they're

holograms playing on stage.

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That is so super cool.

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Yeah, it was really cool.

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And it's really cool that

you are singing on stage.

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And I was thinking, wow,

this could be the future.

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The future could be you don't

have to go to a concert.

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If you have this kind of equipment,

you just like in your living room

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and have this device or you can

even have a headset so you don't

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even have to bother your neighbors.

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Yes.

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You have the headset and you have

the, um, the, uh, what do you call it?

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The, um, the Google mask, the,

the, the, the thing for the vision.

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, I think this is the future.

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I don't know.

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Definitely sounds like it.

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Definitely sounds like it.

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It's super cool.

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That way people don't have to move and

travel miles to, to get to contact.

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Yeah, I don't know if the idea of

this ABBA concert is to replicate

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this concept in other cities.

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So far, it's only in London,

but you can just imagine, you

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know, they can be everywhere.

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Even if we're not talking about that

advanced technology in your living

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room, but it could be, oh, they

could be performing in London and

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at the same time in, um, in Lagos.

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Or, and, um, and somewhere in,

um, in Tokyo, in other cities.

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And so the crew doesn't have to travel.

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To travel.

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Yeah.

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Makes total sense.

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And people don't have to travel as well.

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You can be where you

are and enjoy concerts.

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And have fun.

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Yes.

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I mean, the trade off would be

the human to human interaction

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and dancing with people.

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I guess that's part of

the fun of the concert.

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Oh, yes.

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Dancing with people.

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, that's a big part.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But, well, we can do it 50 50

if, if this takes away half of.

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The emissions, it's okay to do that.

321

: 00:18:56

If I were to go to a concert,

to two concerts, probably

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: 00:18:59

do one virtual and one live.

323

: 00:19:02

And if everyone just did that,

it'll have some impact, I guess.

324

: 00:19:09

Yes.

325

: 00:19:09

Yeah.

326

: 00:19:11

And real life events are good as well.

327

: 00:19:14

Yeah.

328

: 00:19:15

It's been super cool talking

about music and climate change.

329

: 00:19:21

Music and environment.

330

: 00:19:23

And the environment.

331

: 00:19:24

Yeah.

332

: 00:19:24

Music and the environment.

333

: 00:19:25

Yeah.

334

: 00:19:25

Yeah.

335

: 00:19:25

Yeah.

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: 00:19:26

And I hope this brings a

level of consciousness , to

337

: 00:19:28

what's actually possible.

338

: 00:19:30

And before we say that, is there

anything I can do about it?

339

: 00:19:34

There's definitely stuff you can do,

especially if you are into some form of

340

: 00:19:40

art that is able to influence behavior.

341

: 00:19:43

We're probably not even

thinking of many of them.

342

: 00:19:47

There's music, there's probably

many, many other ways that.

343

: 00:19:51

Behavior can be influenced or

we can help make it easier for

344

: 00:19:56

the message to be passed or for

people to remember or take action.

345

: 00:20:03

Yeah.

346

: 00:20:03

So, I know what I'm going to do now.

347

: 00:20:05

The first thing I'm going to do is to

create playlists of, um, songs that

348

: 00:20:11

talk about climate and environment.

349

: 00:20:13

That's something I can do right away.

350

: 00:20:15

Yeah.

351

: 00:20:15

Yeah.

352

: 00:20:16

Yeah.

353

: 00:20:18

And and enjoy listening to them.

354

: 00:20:20

Yes.

355

: 00:20:22

Share it and spread the message.

356

: 00:20:23

Yeah.

357

: 00:20:24

And I think another beautiful way is

there's the communicating it, which is

358

: 00:20:30

explicitly talking about the environment

in the music, there's also conveying it.

359

: 00:20:36

So communicating is

talking about it directly.

360

: 00:20:39

Conveying it is implying it, even though

you're not necessarily saying that.

361

: 00:20:45

This is a statistic or that's another

things like you can talk about an

362

: 00:20:49

experience where you cared and infuse that

into the music and people feel like, Oh.

363

: 00:20:57

I can care too, you know, yeah,

yeah, it's just, you know, the song

364

: 00:21:02

that just come to mind is the, you

know, this Louis Armstrong song.

365

: 00:21:06

What a beautiful world.

366

: 00:21:08

And I do, I'm not going to sing because

I'm a poor, very, very poor singer,

367

: 00:21:12

I'm sure that you know this song.

368

: 00:21:13

What a beautiful world.

369

: 00:21:14

What a wonderful world.

370

: 00:21:16

Um, when you I see skies

of blue or something.

371

: 00:21:19

What do you mean?

372

: 00:21:20

Try to sing it in English.

373

: 00:21:22

Yes.

374

: 00:21:23

Yes.

375

: 00:21:24

It's a celebration of the

world that we need to protect.

376

: 00:21:29

So, see?

377

: 00:21:31

This song is definitely a celebration

of the world that we need to protect.

378

: 00:21:36

Yeah.

379

: 00:21:38

Are you going to play that?

380

: 00:21:39

Absolutely.

381

: 00:21:40

Absolutely.

382

: 00:21:40

Absolutely.

383

: 00:21:40

Absolutely.

384

: 00:21:42

Okay, maybe we can sing along together.

385

: 00:21:44

No, I'm, I'm, I'm a horrible singer.

386

: 00:21:47

I'm a horrible singer

as well, but I'll try.

387

: 00:21:51

Icy skies of blue and clouds of white.

388

: 00:21:54

Oh no, no.

389

: 00:21:55

Abort, abort mission.

390

: 00:21:59

Okay.

391

: 00:21:59

I think we should end this then.

392

: 00:22:01

Yeah, we should, we

should probably end it.

393

: 00:22:04

And maybe before we go, another song

that also might is we are the world

394

: 00:22:10

by Michael Jackson and the rest.

395

: 00:22:12

Oh yeah.

396

: 00:22:14

The other guys there.

397

: 00:22:16

Yeah.

398

: 00:22:16

You see you're not such a bad song.

399

: 00:22:22

Okay.

400

: 00:22:22

That's a great song, but we're pausing it.

401

: 00:22:26

talk to you next week.

402

: 00:22:28

So I'll see you next

403

: 00:22:40

hate, this is leaky.

404

: 00:22:42

Just some last minute news.

405

: 00:22:45

As I'm posting this conversation.

406

: 00:22:47

And today it's October 10th.

407

: 00:22:50

2023.

408

: 00:22:52

I've just read that Bjork.

409

: 00:22:53

York, you know, the singer from Iceland.

410

: 00:22:56

She has teamed up was.

411

: 00:22:58

Yeah.

412

: 00:22:59

Another pop singer from Spain.

413

: 00:23:01

And they are collaborating on the

song to campaign against industrial

414

: 00:23:07

salmon farming in Iceland.

415

: 00:23:11

Yes, you heard it.

416

: 00:23:12

industrial fish farming in Iceland.

417

: 00:23:16

This is quite alarming and very

sad because Iceland is a place

418

: 00:23:21

with some of the most breathtaking

wanders you can imagine.

419

: 00:23:26

The title of this song has not been

announced yet, but you can see a preview

420

: 00:23:32

on Bjork, social media platforms.

421

: 00:23:34

So we'll link that in the show notes.

422

: 00:23:37

Yolk has announced that all the proceeds

from this song will be donated to

423

: 00:23:41

help fishermen We have the legal fees.

424

: 00:23:44

at.

425

: 00:23:47

Does this.

426

: 00:23:47

The name of the field.

427

: 00:23:49

And Iceland.

428

: 00:23:50

And I just wanted to share that with you

to complete this conversation with all.

429

: 00:23:54

The banshee.

430

: 00:23:56

And as we discussed.

431

: 00:23:58

Music can be a powerful

vehicle to create change.

432

: 00:24:04

week.

433

: 00:24:04

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434

: 00:24:08

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435

: 00:24:13

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436

: 00:24:17

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437

: 00:24:19

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438

: 00:24:22

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439

: 00:24:26

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440

: 00:24:31

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441

: 00:24:37

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: 00:24:45

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444

: 00:24:51

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445

: 00:24:54

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