Saving Joba Mena, a Journey from Extinction to Hope

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Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

Carbon Conversations for every day, with

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everyone, from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas.

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Perspectives, questions, and things we

can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Leekei: Hi, I'm Liki,

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Hi, I'm Christina.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Christina.

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I was listening to our past

conversation the other day, , about

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the planetary boundaries and.

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You know, remember one of the, planetary

boundaries is loss of biodiversity.

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So I thought that to, yeah.

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So I thought that today I could

share a story, um, a happy story.

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I, I mean, I should not , uh,

give you a spoil of the

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story, but in it did end well.

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A happy story of a fish species that was

on the brink of extinction that lives

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in Magadha scar and is a freshwater fish.

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So it lives in rivers.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

I like happy stories.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yes, yes, yes.

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So this story is about the fish.

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And, um, and you know, that's, lots of

biodiversity is one of the planetary

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boundaries that have been crossed.

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And so this is very scary because

when there's no biodiversity, I don't

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know if you remember, but we discussed

about the food chain and all that.

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, uh, and, and then the

ecosystem needs to reorganize.

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And so my question to you

is, do you know what caused.

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What are the causes of

loss of biodiversity?

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Ooh.

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Yeah.

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I think that's, for me, that's one of the

scariest thing, the loss of biodiversity,

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because I always look, I love birds and

I love, um, I love listening to them.

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And, uh, in cities, because

of the light pollution, the

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lights killed a lot of insects.

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So the amount of insects in the cities,

even though it's comfy, but there's not

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enough for the birds to stay around.

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So for me, that's one of the loss of

diversities, that broken chain, that

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we don't have beautiful little birds

chirping and running around the city.

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So, yeah, tell me more about the fish.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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Well, actually, , before I tell you more

about the fish, uh, I would like to,

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um, to clarify that what you mentioned

is I think one of the category, one

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of the thing that is a threat to the

biodiversity is invasive species.

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What you mentioned here is humans

as a species that is using too much

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light and that kills the insect.

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And then the birds don't

have any food left to eat.

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Because there are many causes

of loss of biodiversity.

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So there's invasive species.

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There's also a threat

to the natural habitat.

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And this is, um, and this one of

them, uh, what I would say, one of

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the cause of loss of natural habitat

would be, uh, would be deforestation.

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Like, uh, you know, in Indonesia,

um, because a lot of forests have

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been cut to plant palm trees, , uh,

at one stage around Uten that

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will living in this forest.

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Uh, the threat of extinction because

of, of the natural habitat was a threat.

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And the same thing goes for also

for pandas, uh, because pandas

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used to live in bamboo forest.

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And, uh, because Of, you know, of a

changeable land and deforestation.

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, so a lot of pandas have disappeared.

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I mean, there's a program of conservation.

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So don't be too scared.

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So, uh, but, um, there are other,

um, other causes that could lead to

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a loss of biodiversity, which is.

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Obviously, climate change, and you know,

because climate change changes a lot of

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things, but there's also things, , like

pollution, disease, also that could

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lead to the loss of species, but the

other thing also is Over exploitation

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and for fish, it could be overfishing

or for animals could be over hunting.

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So there are a lot of

causes loss of biodiversity.

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So we have to be very careful about that.

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But the story I want to tell you today

is about a fish that is called the,

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the native name is, uh, Jobamina.

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And this is, um, I think it's

a mal, mal, is it malgash word,

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um, for, um, for pretty lady.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

it sounds great.

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Sounds like pretty lady.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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And, um this fish, lives, the, the

scientific name of this fish is

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Mangahara is the name of the river.

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And yeah, I don't know if

you, um, you have some idea

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about, uh, where Madagascar is.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

I do.

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It's a special, special place.

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They have a lot of species that

are instinct everywhere else.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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It's um, it's called, It's called the

eighth continent sometimes because

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it's a very very big island \ because

they have been isolated, this island

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has been isolated for a while.

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Yeah.

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Uh, so there's, um, the species that live

there, I think there's an estimate that 80

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percent of the species are endemic there.

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So that means they only

live on this island.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Yeah.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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So anyway, um, let's go back to

my, uh, my job, I may not fish.

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so the story didn't start

in, in, um, in Madagascar.

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It started in London, at

the London Zoo Aquarium.

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There's a curator of Zoo Aquarium

whose name is brian Zimmerman . Early

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2000s, he was donated 20 fish from a

private collector of the job, I mean,

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uh, , , the private collector donated

this fish to the current, because

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he knows at that time that this, um,

this is a species that was at threat.

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I listened to an interview and he

said that, well, yeah, I was quite

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confident at that time because, um,

you know, we, at the beginning we just

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learning how to, to keep the fish alive.

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So at the beginning of the, he was quite

onfident, but then, um, in: 2005

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realized that he had only two fish left.

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And two, the only two of them were males.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Oh no.

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Oh.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

and at the same time, he was reading

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about the Mangahara River that was

getting dry because the water from

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this river was diverted to grow rice.

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And so he was getting

really, really nervous.

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Because, he was supposed

to keep those, those fish.

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And then he's got only two males left.

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And then at the same time, he

thought, wow, maybe, I have

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in my hand the only ones left.

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So, you know, well, well, what do you do?

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So he called a friend who's, um, was

also a curator of an aquarium in the zoo

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of Berlin and told him yeah you know um

I'm very nervous because I only have two

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males left and so do you have any left

and the the zoo in Berlin had this oh

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don't don't worry too much I have three

left I have two males And one female.

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Um, then he said, okay, so

we need to do something.

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We need to, we need to make

them, you know, spawn and,

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you know, make more fishes.

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So, , the curator in Berlin in the Berlin

aquarium, he put them a male and a female

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in a separate aquarium and then, uh,

and then create, you know, a very nice.

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Um, environment for them and you'll

give them some space and let them

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together for them to, you know, to

spawn and to, yeah, to make more fishes.

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But then, because, um, apparently

something I've learned from this

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story is that a cichlid is a

very, very, um, aggressive fish.

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The male killed the female.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Oh, no!

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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then, you know, this operation of

starting a new family was gone.

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This hope was gone.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Oh,

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah, it was gone.

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So, and so what Brian Zimmerman did, he

is like, it can't be, it can't be it.

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You know, , I have to do something

because, it was donated to us.

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And so I'm, I'm supposed to

safe, safeguard this fishes.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Yeah,

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

And so what he did is in, uh, and

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we're talking about 2012, 2013.

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So 10, uh, over 12 years back , , and

that was the beginning of social media.

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Um, so what he did is that he launched a

campaign, I give very funky campaign, uh,

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with a poster saying wanted a female job.

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I mean, I wanted female, no, not

Juba Mina, Mangara, Hara, , sicklet.

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And he put it on social media.

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It creates a lot of buzz up to a

point that I was very, very happy

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that he had created a dedicated

email address because he was, he

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received answers by the thousands.

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So this campaign went viral.

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He had a lot of responses.

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, but.

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A lot of them were dead ends, um, but

nevertheless, he managed to build,

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um, a kind of, um, partnership

with another zoo in, uh, in Toronto.

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And then, um, one day he received

a message from, um, , from

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someone from Madagascar.

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Someone who's, um, who owns

hotel and, uh, also a tilapia.

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farmer.

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I don't know if you, um, you know,

tilapia is a very common fish in Africa.

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And so this guy is called Guy Tam Hyok

and said, yeah, well, I think I saw this

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fish, the fish that you're looking for.

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Um, I don't breed them,

but I think I saw them.

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And so, you know, he sent him some

pictures of, you know, some indication,

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and then he kind of convinced him to.

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Start raising money to get on an

expedition to search for the fish.

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But the only thing that he had with

him was um, , the, the local and,

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um, farmer and then that's it.

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And so they went on an expedition.

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And that was wild because, um, because

they had no idea where to look.

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for this, uh, for this fish.

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And so they started asking the

locals, go to the markets, go to

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different parts and , asking people.

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And then one thing led to another, they

have traveled through, they went up

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north, traveled through the island for, I

think, three weeks or something like that.

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, and the conditions were not Were not easy,

like, you know, a day or that sometimes

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they have to to drive on dirt road.

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And, , I gathered that, some

days they were driving, um,

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on the 20 K, , per hour speed.

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That was, uh, that was

really, really slow.

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And sometimes there's not even

roads that they have to hike for

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days and days, but eventually.

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They found it.

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they found it and they managed to, to

preserve, um, 18 live fish that they

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gave to, guide Tam Hyok, who has

managed to, to conserve them and then

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move them somewhere that is safer for

them to grow and, um, actually, now the

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species is safe I've learned all that

for a visit in the n decorum in the

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tropical aquarium a couple weeks back.

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And, um, and I can tell you that

this fish is alive because I saw

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them, they was swimming in Theorum.

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That's an amazing story.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

that's fun.

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So, did they get some fish to London Zoo?

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Do you know?

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Oh, that's a good question.

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Um, Yeah, I believe so.

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Now that they have, um, you know, they

realize that this kind of collaboration

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work, um, they are programs , , through

different aquariums and, uh, and zoos

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to, to, uh, to keep the fish to safe.

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Yeah.

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One thing I didn't know, , uh, that

there are some aquariums the

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role is to safeguard the species.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Oh, nice.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Yeah, so maybe we can send people

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to look into London Zoo if they

have the fish and let us know.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yes.

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Yes.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

out the endangered species in the zoos.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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I've

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

wonderful story.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah, I found out about this story because

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a few weeks ago I took my niece and

my nephew to this tropical aquarium and

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there was an exhibition for kids because

this story , has become , a cartoon book.

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And, um, and so there was an exhibition

that you, you can go through all the

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cartoon characters and, and fly, not

fly on the plane, but you know, there's

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there's the, the, the scene you can,

um, pretend that you're flying or you

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pretend that you're searching for this.

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And I think that this kind of exhibition

is great because, um, my niece, who's

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eight year old, Asking me a lot of

questions about the environment, about,

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you know, uh, yeah, about the environment,

about, oh, you know, um, about why

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did fish disappear and, uh, can I eat

sushi, you know, this kind of question.

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It was very cute.

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Um,

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

that's wonderful.

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Well, there's, yay for social media

that they were part of saving Yeah,

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

and this joba minnow Honestly, I've

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never heard about it before and, uh,

and I'm sure that there's so, so, so,

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so many spaces that are disappearing.

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But I think this is a

very, very hopeful story.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

I, yeah, I think it would be so boring to

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have just few species and this, uh, taking

over and I don't think we would survive.

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I think diversity is so

important, connects all of us.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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And

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

And it's so much more fun.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

yes, it's so much more fun and I think

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it's important to acknowledge, that

there are problems, but it is also.

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Important to take action because if

you don't acknowledge that there's

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problems, you cannot take action.

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And this time it was really scary.

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And, and so action was taken.

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And, uh, and there's, uh, you know,

there's, there's so much in this story.

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I think there's, you know, uh, No,

I shouldn't say ownership, but um,

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responsibility, um, social media, the use

of power, social media, um, international

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collaboration and talking to people.

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riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Yeah, connections, connections.

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That's beautiful.

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I, um, yeah, it's such

a brave thing to do.

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I wonder what is for people

when they hear these things.

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What is it that makes them to take action?

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Because in your story, it made total

sense, and it felt very doable.

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It's how it started that, okay, let's

check out if somebody else has it.

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Make a phone call.

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Go on social media.

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And then it, the growing the audience

helps Connect everybody and that

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connection brings energy and money

to the project and then it can

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grow and, and the bravery of people

going to Madagascar, uh, to search.

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Wow.

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Amazing.

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I think that's a good story.

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It's, uh, somehow it energizes me.

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It's kind of, I feel like, okay,

if he can do it, I can do it.

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riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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And if you want to find out more about

this, this fish, this story, and, uh, and

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if you're going to Paris this summer, and

I know a lot of our listeners are going

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to Paris for the Olympics, you can go

and, and, um, and find out about this.

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The exhibition is still there and

the job I may not is still there.

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So go to the Paris.

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tropical aquarium.

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It's a, it's a very, very

beautiful aquarium, not too big.

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So you will not be overwhelmed, but

the exhibition is there and the fish

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is there and it's free for kids.

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: 00:18:15

riverside_kristina_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0196:

Oh, wonderful.

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: 00:18:18

. Well thank you so much Liggev,

that was a wonderful story

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: 00:18:22

and we'll see you next week.

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: 00:18:24

riverside_leekei_raw-audio_carbon_daily_0195:

Yeah.

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: 00:18:25

Thank you for listening to this story.

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: 00:18:27

That gave me a lot of joy.

288

: 00:18:30

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