Episode 54

Sharing Climate Conversations That Made Us Hopeful Again

Episode Summary: In this episode, Jenn, Brian and Leekei took turns sharing a recent climate conversation that made them hopeful again

Brian shared his recent conversation with Joshua Spodek and his unique method for coaching individuals to live in a more sustainable way, coming from a place of fun, joy, freedom and connection.

Leekei shared her conversation with an heirloom vegetable shop owner and the moment of epiphany when during the conversation, he realised that his work is in connection with the endeavour against climate change. 

Jenn shared a conversation she had at work about the organisation of a big event where she managed to convince the group to replace bottled water with water in jugs. It might sound trivial but it was an important win.

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

 

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Brian D Tormey, Jenn Swanson and Leekei Tang

Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US.

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves.  

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Transcript
Speaker:

Hi, I'm Emma.

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I live in his colon.

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Hi, I'm Jen and I'm from Canada.

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Hi,

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Oh, I'm leaky and I live in Paris.

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Okay.

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I'm Rob I'm from fruit.

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Welcome to carbon site.

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A podcast with carbon conversations for every day, with everyone, from

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everywhere in the world, in our conversations, we share ideas,

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perspectives, questions, and things we can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our carbon sessions because it's not too late.

JENN:

Hi, I'm Jen.

Leekei:

hi, I am Lakey.

Brian:

Hi, I'm Brian.

JENN:

And today we're talking about an A climate conversation

JENN:

that we've had recently and we're just gonna see where that goes.

JENN:

So Brian, you said you had one that you had recently.

JENN:

Do you wanna start us off?

Brian:

I did.

Brian:

I, um, we actually here as, as part of the, uh, the Carbon Almanac project

Brian:

and some of our podcasts had a guest on recently by the name of, uh, Joshua Spek.

Brian:

And he's an NYU professor, author New York Times besting author.

Brian:

And, and we dove into a number of different topics and he and I ended up

Brian:

speaking after our recording session and have spoken a few times since.

Brian:

Uh, and some of those conversations, I've been very inspiring and the one that I

Brian:

think I wanna hone in on that, uh, that I really wanna focus on is something

Brian:

that he's referred to as last name Isak.

Brian:

He's referring to as the method, which is.

Brian:

A method of having a conversation about the climate and about things going on

Brian:

in the world with another person to assess their understanding, uh, and

Brian:

place they sit at currently in, in their relationship with the environment,

Brian:

and help lead the conversation towards generally speaking the direction.

Brian:

Better improvement towards environmental actions in their own daily life

Brian:

or choices or variety of things.

Brian:

And he sort of got this sort of rubric and method that he's structured

Brian:

around it, and he's been leading that conversation method with quite a number

Brian:

of individuals as sort of experimenting and building out this method.

Brian:

of,

Brian:

conversation including, you know, executives at oil companies and you know,

Brian:

people from pretty strong perspectives of, Nope, I can do whatever I want.

Brian:

I'm not worried about the impacts.

Brian:

You know, sort of fairly strong.

Brian:

What we might say is, you know, not ecological, footprint minded,

Brian:

and he's been using this method and going through a multi-step,

Brian:

multi-week kind of methodology.

Brian:

Achieving results because it's, uh, for me as I interact with people who

Brian:

are on board with the idea of, okay, let's, let's reduce our footprint.

Brian:

Um, everyone's, you know, everyone's on, you're having a conversation in

Brian:

maybe a little echo chamber kind of way, and, and you're on board and

Brian:

you're focus and you're sharing the tips and tricks and things you're doing.

Brian:

And then when you have a conversation with someone who's not focused on it, you sort

Brian:

of say, well, you should try this, or You should do this, or I do this, or I did.

Brian:

And those things that worked for you, that helped either inspire you or the

Brian:

actions that you could incorporate into your life or your decision

Brian:

making, your buying power, um, may not be the things for the other person.

Brian:

And Josh's method really starts with like,

Brian:

what, where were the times in their life that they were happy?

Brian:

and he tends to find that nature or some interaction with a larger ecosystem is,

Brian:

is usually at the root of whatever these moments and memories they have, they're

Brian:

happy and then he leads them down a series of sort of exercises that help move

Brian:

them in the direction of understanding that those happy moments and times in

Brian:

order to have those in the future and be possible for themselves and for others.

Brian:

They need to adjust some of their own behaviors, right?

Brian:

And purchasing decisions, all those things.

Brian:

And it's just like almost like a scientific method.

Brian:

Like there's some real structure to this thing.

Brian:

And he's currently has me on this method, even though I'm

Brian:

starting in a place of, you know, a focus and attentiveness to this.

Brian:

And so he set me up with, A series of drills and things to like go get

Brian:

me out into nature to experience it.

Brian:

And I just did a, a pre dawn, uh, rock climb and, and hike out to a place

Brian:

here in New York called Que Craig to see the sun come up and spend time

Brian:

reflecting on some of these things.

Brian:

It was part of a, maybe we'd call it homework, uh, as part of this method.

Brian:

And it was really just inspiring cuz it's, I can see that it's maybe a method that.

Brian:

People have conversations with loved ones, their kids, coworkers,

Brian:

other people where they come to it from a difference of opinion.

Brian:

But this sort of method helps break it down to the, that common

Brian:

ground space and then work back up towards a new conclusion.

Brian:

Um, so anyway, so that's, I've been having a lot of fun talking

Brian:

with Josh and learning about this method and, and being sort of put

Brian:

through the method in a sense myself.

. Leekei:

And when this method is used with people that are in, uh, a very,

. Leekei:

um, very high in hierarchy and with a very strong managerial role, they could

. Leekei:

implement it in their own companies.

Brian:

Correct.

Brian:

Well, and that's part of, you know, it's interesting, part of, uh, you know,

Brian:

this Josh's methodology in whom he's seeking out to have conversations with

Brian:

is around, Not just anyone, but actually people who themselves could have a

Brian:

cascading effect, a rippling effect of their own influence or decision making.

Brian:

You know, and he sort of recognizes that.

Brian:

He and his time can't scale infinitely.

Brian:

He can't go spend time and have a conversation, follow the SP method

Brian:

with every single person in the world.

Brian:

That's not feasible.

Brian:

But he can go be mindful, uh, in both who he speaks with and, and tries this

Brian:

method out with for their decision making or influence power or with people who

Brian:

can like go learn the method themselves.

Brian:

and then go be, uh, sort of their own amplifying version of this by going and

Brian:

following some of this methodology to have to take what can often be these

Brian:

like, very confrontational conversations.

Brian:

Uh, you know, I grew up in a timber and ranching community where, um, people

Brian:

really love and take care and I would consider them, I would say that they're

Brian:

often like some of the best stewards of the, of the environment around them.

Brian:

but there's sometimes still like decisions that they're making that

Brian:

are not good for the environment in ways that they can't necessarily,

Brian:

it's not immediately perceivable.

Brian:

And I, I, I look forward to having follow this sort of method with some of those

Brian:

people in my, in my life that we see.

Brian:

Differently on what we should do with our day and time and energy, but we, I think,

Brian:

down deep believe in the same kind of concept of this level of like stewardship

Brian:

and leaving things better than we founded and, and what that means, I think down

Brian:

deep, that's a uniform perspective.

JENN:

beautiful.

JENN:

I'm interested to hear what this whole method is and how, how to find out

Brian:

More, more to come.

Brian:

We're we're actually, we were, Josh and I were discussing, we, you know, through the

Brian:

creation of the Carbon Almanac Network, this very big, wonderful global network,

Brian:

we were sort of discussing the idea of, okay, maybe we go like maybe there's some

Brian:

people in this network who wanna say, yep.

Brian:

let me go try, let me try this methodology out a little bit and start to sample it

Brian:

in other cultures and in other locations and through different people to start

Brian:

seeing like, how well does it scale as you, as you pass the baton of method

Brian:

from one person to the next, to the next.

Leekei:

Yeah, I think it's very interesting because personally I've

Leekei:

always been very reluctant to talk to people or try to start a , climate

Leekei:

conversation with people that are not sharing the same perspective and, and.

Leekei:

I'm not helping so much.

Leekei:

I mean, I'm, I'm choosing the easy path, so I also want to learn how

Leekei:

to do it and try to talk to people that don't share my worldview

Leekei:

because we'll talk about worldviews.

Brian:

Mm-hmm.

Brian:

. Yeah.

Brian:

Well, it's cause it's.

Brian:

You don't wanna have a confrontational conversation.

Brian:

It's not because that doesn't lead to the, your goal is behavior change, right?

Brian:

Your goal is likely perspective and behavior change that will have an impact

Brian:

in the choices they make and the influence they have in the world, and the impact

Brian:

on the environment and their footprint.

Brian:

But having a headbutting contest with someone probably just has them dig their

Brian:

heels in and lean into the headbut.

Brian:

In many cases as opposed to helping them come to a new perspective.

JENN:

So it's about, it's about unifying, right?

JENN:

I think, I think our world right now is just in so much pain and so

JENN:

much, um, there's so much despair and grief that the more of these kinds of

JENN:

unifying conversations and invitations we can have the better, uh, less

JENN:

confrontation and more connection

JENN:

I'm seeing, I'm feeling it everywhere and seeing it everywhere and all

JENN:

the work, all the work that I do and the conversations that I have that

JENN:

people are just tired of arguing.

Brian:

tired of the divisiveness of so many topics.

Brian:

You know, it used to be there was like one or two things you didn't talk about.

Brian:

and now there's just so many that are third rails, you know, and,

Brian:

and they, it shouldn't be that way.

Brian:

Sh we, we should be able to have informed, collaborative, you know,

Brian:

mediated kind of conversations that, that bring a conversation together towards a

Brian:

conclusion with, especially with how much information and data is at our fingertips.

Brian:

I mean, it's really just at our fingertip.

Brian:

That wasn't always the case, but it should.

Brian:

That extra information, I think should help us come to better conclusions,

Brian:

not more divergent conclusions.

JENN:

do you think do you think people get tired of the, how much choice

JENN:

there is at our fingertips and just sort of pick a lane and stay in it?

Brian:

There.

Brian:

There's a whole field of science around decision fatigue.

Brian:

Um, this is, I was chatting with someone recently about a, a different

Brian:

book, um, called Mindless Eating.

Brian:

And in it the, um, the, the author sort of uses this phrase, these moments of

Brian:

conscious make decisions and moments of consciousness, so that in all these

Brian:

other moments of not consciousness, you don't have to think about.

Brian:

The decision because we only have so many decisions we can make a day.

Brian:

Um, and I, and he, his advocacy in, in this book, um, was, you know,

Brian:

principally focused in part on like health and food consumption.

Brian:

Like make a smart decision, like when you're at the grocery store,

Brian:

buy the things then in your pantry.

Brian:

Are going to be good, you know?

Brian:

Then you just go and you open up the refrigerator, you open up the

Brian:

pantry, and you eat healthy foods.

Brian:

Because in that one moment at the grocery store, you didn't buy anything

Brian:

that you shouldn't be looking at inside your refrigerator or pantry.

JENN:

conscious decision making.

JENN:

I like it.

Brian:

Yeah.

JENN:

And that would relate, that would relate to the environment as well, right?

JENN:

What, what decisions can we make consciously about how we walk

JENN:

through the world that have impact?

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

Well, and they can be decisions that you, you know,

Brian:

they can be decisions that you sort of make one time and then

Brian:

you just hold to your decision.

Brian:

So I used to make a New Year's resolution for myself.

Brian:

Every year I would make a couple and like a number of years ago,

Brian:

I always used to put sugar in my coffee, you know, as many people do.

Brian:

And I don't know, maybe 12, 13 years ago, I just, one of my resolutions was.

Brian:

I will never put sugar in my coffee again.

Brian:

And that was just my thing.

Brian:

And, but every time I make myself a cup of coffee, I still have to go

Brian:

through that decision matrix a little bit like the sugar's sitting there.

Brian:

If I'm at any place out there in the world, um, the sugar's sitting there,

Brian:

it's not sitting there in my house.

Brian:

Oh, and this is how we can do it.

Brian:

So if I'm at a, at a coffee shop or at a restaurant or anything, the sugar's there

Brian:

and I have to decide not to put it in.

Brian:

But at my house, and this actually goes back to this concept of

Brian:

like a moment of consciousness.

Brian:

I don't have a sugar bowl anywhere near, like I've got sugar for some

Brian:

baking things like back in the pantry, but there's no sugar out anywhere

Brian:

near where we make coffee and tea.

Brian:

And so sometimes guests are like, well, where's the sugar?

Brian:

And I was like, I don't have one.

Brian:

I'll bring out the five pound thing and be like, wait, here's the baking sugar.

Brian:

If you want some, but like there's none anywhere near the sh the tea and

Brian:

coffee making and that decision to not have a sugar bowl and not have it

Brian:

ready means I don't have to think about it so much when I make my morning cup

Brian:

of coffee or tea or my evening tea.

Brian:

I don't have to think about it.

Brian:

It's not there for me.

Brian:

And that's that like decision in one moment.

Brian:

And I, and I, Jen, I think you're so right.

Brian:

There's all these kind of decisions that we can make in like big moments

Brian:

of consciousness, decision making.

Brian:

But then we just don't have to think about anymore.

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

Um, if you, we, there was this great, um, piece in the Carbon Almanac, uh, one

Brian:

of the podcasts about gas leaf blowers

Leekei:

Mm.

Brian:

electric ones.

Brian:

Do you remember that

JENN:

remember?

JENN:

Yes, I do.

Brian:

that one.

Brian:

Yeah.

JENN:

I was part of that conversation and it was hilarious.

Brian:

it was pretty funny and, and I listened to it and, and really

Brian:

learned and thought, and I, I.

Brian:

A gas, you know, I had a gas one and an electric one, both sitting

Brian:

and, you know, available for use.

Brian:

And I sort of used the gas for the bigger heftier stuff and

Brian:

the, the electric for the other.

Brian:

And our houses fully powered by solar were, were a negative

Brian:

impact on the grid annually.

Brian:

And, and so like the electricity is, Functionally, I've already

Brian:

invested in the panels and it's free, but I still use the gas one

Brian:

sometimes for just convenience, right?

Brian:

Even though I have to pay for the gasoline, and put in the oil, you know?

Brian:

But then when I heard that podcast, I was like, wait, let me just decommission,

Brian:

like let me just stop using this.

Brian:

And so I actually like cleaned up my gas powered one and

Brian:

put it away pretty formally.

Brian:

And now I still am not sure whether, whether the right decision is to What

Brian:

to do with it, but I just took it out of my garage and put it in my basement,

Brian:

cleaned it, empty it, put it away.

Brian:

So now I just always grabbed the electric one and maybe it

Brian:

takes me a little bit more time.

Brian:

I have to use you a little bit more raking to help it with its, you know, power.

Brian:

But it's that I made that I, your podcast was the thing that

Brian:

made me go put the gas one.

Leekei:

Oh, that's wonderful.

Leekei:

See

Leekei:

Jet

Brian:

And now I don't, I don't see it there.

Brian:

And you know, it's in my basement.

Brian:

It's not in my garage, so I don't, when I go to the garage,

Brian:

I only grab the electric one.

Brian:

As a result of your podcast, I've put the other one away.

Leekei:

Oh

JENN:

Thank

Brian:

I'm trying to get our

JENN:

that.

Brian:

Yeah, of course.

Leekei:

I think very often we do things because, um, you know, out

Leekei:

of habits or out of convenience.

Leekei:

And, and once we realize that this habit or this thing that is convenient is

Leekei:

hurting, uh, this behavior is hurting the, the environment, the planet, we.

Leekei:

we change it.

Leekei:

And so I think the, the goal of this podcast is, and the carbon arm and

Leekei:

everything, the work we're doing is not to, you know, to invent the new

Leekei:

solution, but is to make people realize that some things that they been doing or

Leekei:

are thinking of doing are not so good.

Leekei:

, but the, it's not like finger pointing and, and shaming people, but it just,

Leekei:

you know, helping them realize that, oh, ooh, maybe there's an alternative.

Leekei:

, yeah.

Leekei:

Of doing things.

Leekei:

Yeah.

JENN:

I love the idea of, of habit.

JENN:

Um, there's a book that I, I've read a few times that I love, uh, called

JENN:

Mini Mini Habits and um, this person talks about like a micro habit.

JENN:

. Leekei: mm

JENN:

and so, you know, if you're going to do a pushup, do one, and

JENN:

that's your minimum for the day.

JENN:

Well, by the time you get down to do one, you're of course not gonna do just

JENN:

one or put your runners on and go to the end of your driveway or down into

JENN:

your lobby depending on where you live.

JENN:

And.

JENN:

and by the time you get down there, you're probably gonna keep going,

JENN:

but if you don't, you've still satisfied your goal, which was to

JENN:

put your shoes on and go outside.

JENN:

Um, so micro habits, uh, you know, floss one tooth, and all you have to do one

JENN:

day, is floss, one tooth, You know?

JENN:

So it's like what are the, the micro habits that we.

JENN:

Start with if, if doing something big is too much, um, what are

JENN:

the micro things we can do?

JENN:

And then at least we've accomplished that one thing.

JENN:

And then, and then you build on that.

JENN:

Right.

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

Is that, does that sound like that was the book from Steven Geis.

JENN:

Yeah.

JENN:

I think it

Brian:

I see.

Brian:

It's on audiobook.

Brian:

I'm gonna go listen to that.

Brian:

I like

JENN:

Like that

JENN:

idea.

JENN:

Yeah.

JENN:

And I, I love that book because I've done a number of things that were suggested

JENN:

in that book and it actually works.

JENN:

like putting your workout clothes on.

JENN:

First thing is deader robe or whatever, , and it's like, well, I did all this work

JENN:

to get dressed into my workout clothes.

JENN:

I might as well work out

Brian:

I

Leekei:

Yeah.

Brian:

as well go do it.

Brian:

What is it's, there's an inertia that shows up, and I think this comes back

Brian:

to that question of decision making.

Brian:

Decision making is like a moment where you have to choose a

Brian:

path left or right, up or down.

Brian:

And when you just sort of set yourself, so there's already inertia going

Brian:

one direction for the other versus the other, it's more likely that you

Brian:

will move with the, you'll go with the inertia that you said in motion.

JENN:

Yeah.

JENN:

So what can we, what decisions can we make for, uh, that are good for the.

Brian:

Yeah.

JENN:

Yeah.

Brian:

there's so many

Leekei:

Yeah.

Leekei:

, Brian: turn into a long,

Leekei:

I'm like, I don't know how to answer that succinctly at all.

JENN:

Well,

JENN:

that could have been a rhetorical question too.

Brian:

yeah,

Leekei:

yeah.

Leekei:

Maybe it's a good segue to my experience.

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

Go for it.

Brian:

Leaky.

Leekei:

which is related to well as usual to food of course, uh,

Leekei:

because I love talking about food.

Leekei:

You know, um, my experience is with, um, the book signing.

Leekei:

I remember, um, I think it was in July we did this book signing event, and,

Leekei:

uh, because the book was not published in France and, uh, and I was, I think I

Leekei:

was traveling somewhere that day and I didn't really have a lot of time to do it.

Leekei:

So I went to, um, a store, um, where the cell.

Leekei:

, um, wonderful.

Leekei:

Um, vegetable and fruit , and it's a very, a wonderful, wonderful for shop

Leekei:

that is not so big and it's really in my neighborhood and it's run

Leekei:

by a couple and, um, they are very, very in love with great, great food.

Leekei:

So in, when you go to this.

Leekei:

Place you buy, you know, you get, uh, like specials of vegetable

Leekei:

and fruits, , that I never could have imagined, could have existed.

Leekei:

Like, you know, tomatoes they don't just sell tomatoes.

Leekei:

They sell the.

Leekei:

Ancient, uh, specialists of tomatoes.

Leekei:

Uh, they sell like, you know, um, carrot.

Leekei:

I didn't know that there are so many varieties of carrots, but they do, they,

Leekei:

they really carrot for the, you know, the small, um, small batches of production.

Leekei:

And also another thing that they go for is, um, is the local production.

Leekei:

Because, you know, they, this studies this shop with a very strong idea

Leekei:

is that, you know, um, They want to eat wonderful food and it's really

Leekei:

started with this simple idea.

Leekei:

Eating wonderful food.

Leekei:

And the wonderful food is not that far away.

Leekei:

We don't need to import, like, I dunno, mangoes, we can grow mangoes.

Leekei:

Um, not so far from France.

Leekei:

We can, we have wonderful mangoes in Spain, um, like Kiwis.

Leekei:

, well, we don't need to import Kiwis, uh, from New Zealand.

Leekei:

We can grow it here.

Leekei:

And, um, you know, it's, it's really looking for finding.

Leekei:

Locally produced and small batches, , vegetable and because

Leekei:

I'm a customer of the shop, uh, actually I buy, I don't buy my, veggies

Leekei:

and, and fruit from the spa market.

Leekei:

I only buy it from the market or from them.

Leekei:

And so I decided to go and do the book signing.

Leekei:

the place.

Leekei:

So that was before the summer holiday.

Leekei:

And then, uh, when I came back, uh, after the holiday, uh, we started this

Leekei:

conversation and the guy, uh, whose name is name had said, oh, you know, it's,

Leekei:

it's really wonderful that , you know, you are writing, you're participating

Leekei:

in this book because, well, we had a very, very hard summer in Europe.

Leekei:

Um, we, the climate is really changing uh it's going to the wrong direction.

Leekei:

And so the work that you are doing and you and your group , , and your friends,

Leekei:

your colleagues is really important.

Leekei:

And then I said, well, well, I think that , the work that you

Leekei:

are doing is even more important.

Leekei:

, I think it's even more important because you are, um, You

Leekei:

are helping small farmers.

Leekei:

, , live and produce out of the land and, uh, you are putting , great food on the table.

Leekei:

And, um, you are also helping, , the, the environment by local

Leekei:

production and also, you know, reducing the, the shipping costs.

Leekei:

And that's all adding up.

Leekei:

It's very, very heavy in, , uh, weight, very heavy in the

Leekei:

environment, in climate change.

Leekei:

And he's like, oh really?

Leekei:

You think my work is helping fight the climate change.

Leekei:

And I say, absolutely.

Leekei:

Yeah.

Leekei:

And it was like magical because it was a moment of epiphany for him, um,

Leekei:

because he didn't realize that he was.

Leekei:

Doing the thing in the, you know yeah, he didn't realize, think was helping and so

Leekei:

that made me come to actually two things that made me very, very happy and, um,

Leekei:

and hopeful because one is that, , they are a lot of people out there that are

Leekei:

doing wonderful things because it seems the right thing to be, to do, but not.

Leekei:

Not because they want to, you know, , they want to fight a particular cause or

Leekei:

something, but it just because something they think is the right thing to do.

Leekei:

So one way that made me very hopeful is that this a lot of people out

Leekei:

there that are doing things that.

Leekei:

Good for their environment, good for the planet, and they're doing it

Leekei:

because it seems the right thing to do.

Leekei:

So that's, um, that's, that's, that's great.

Leekei:

And yeah, they are not, like, not bragging themselves, they're just doing

Leekei:

the work because it seems to be the most sensitive way of doing things.

Leekei:

So that's the first thing that made me very, very happy.

Leekei:

The second thing that made me very happy is that, , you know, uh, very often

Leekei:

people, a lot of people actually, a lot of people think that, oh, you know, um,

Leekei:

yeah, well, if we need to, um, do things the right way, it has to be restrictive.

Leekei:

, we need, we need to sacrifice, we need to do things that will,

Leekei:

it's not, uh, it's not fun.

Leekei:

Um, But it's not true because, you know, it's not true.

Leekei:

Because, you know, eating locally produced , uh, food and locally, uh,

Leekei:

produced food that are from ancient species, it's absolutely delicious.

Leekei:

It's, it's really, I'm having a fist every time I, you know, I, I cook his food.

Leekei:

It's just wonderful.

Leekei:

So, so, yeah, it's, you know, it's, I think it's a, it's

Leekei:

a change of, um, of mindset.

Leekei:

I dunno.

JENN:

I love how enthusiastic you are.

JENN:

I love food too.

JENN:

Leaky.

JENN:

You're

JENN:

making me hungry,

Brian:

Well, and, and people couldn't hear it on the podcast, but there was a moment

Brian:

where, you know, here as we can see each other, I held up as leaky was talking.

Brian:

I'm eating the last, the absolute last of my homegrown

Brian:

tomatoes

Brian:

like.

Brian:

This is the last one

Brian:

here on my plate, and I went on mute and had a bite

JENN:

a bite

Brian:

of what you were saying, Lakey, because it's so true.

Brian:

Both, you know, going and buying food that you can know the

Brian:

story of and sort of the access.

Brian:

and then take it home and you, you met the farmer at the market or whatever,

Brian:

or maybe you grew something yourself.

Brian:

It, it tastes better.

Brian:

And it's not because it empirically tastes better, it tastes better

Brian:

because of the, the experience of it.

Brian:

You have a relationship with it.

Brian:

And, and maybe it empirically tastes better too.

Brian:

Um, and it's so, I loved, I loved what you just said because you're right.

Brian:

There's some of those things that are, they're actually more fun

Brian:

and lovely and enjoyable, not.

Brian:

Painful and a sacrifice and work and a headache.

Brian:

Um, and, and the enjoyment that comes with simple decisions, coming back to

Brian:

decisions that lead you those ways.

Brian:

I, I just totally love it.

JENN:

that.

Brian:

That's right.

JENN:

So I had a conversation.

JENN:

Um, and it was about a conversation.

JENN:

I had a conversation about a conversation I wasn't part of Um, and it was around,

JENN:

uh, yeah, I was, it was last evening and I was having this conversation with

JENN:

someone who had attended, um, a town, town hall, um, which is, uh, a gathering that,

JENN:

um, the organization I work with has.

JENN:

Monthly and, um, there's about a hundred people on the call from about

JENN:

a hundred different organizations and the conversation was around

JENN:

how to make our organizations, um, have less of a carbon impact.

JENN:

And, um, so she was very excited.

JENN:

This person who had attended was very excited about the conversation

JENN:

and all the things that we could do.

JENN:

And I was thinking, we, we hosted a conference last weekend and, um, I.

JENN:

, you know, having the planning meetings with the hospitality team

JENN:

and, and all of the rest of it.

JENN:

And, um, they were talking about what to serve and it came up, we should

JENN:

have coffee and tea and, and water.

JENN:

And someone said, oh, I can pick up a flat.

JENN:

And I just, I hear that and I just, because bottled water just makes me go

JENN:

So especially when we live in a place.

JENN:

Our water is amazing.

JENN:

And so I said, how, how won?

JENN:

We put out jugs of water and we use our glasses, our real glasses that we have.

JENN:

Um, oh, even better, you know?

JENN:

Um, a, it's free and b, it's no plastic, right?

JENN:

So, so little tiny things that can be done that shift, right?

JENN:

Because if we're so used to the convenience of doing something, it's a.

JENN:

Going back to

JENN:

habit, but what if we shift it a little bit and make a decision that

JENN:

is good for the planet works just as well, and, and make a new habit, um,

JENN:

then we can have a, a bigger impact.

JENN:

So, um, you know, little, little tiny things sometimes can make

JENN:

a big difference, but it's just that, that shift in conversation.

JENN:

So,

Leekei:

and associated with something positive as well to

Leekei:

make a, to, to enforce a habit.

JENN:

Yeah.

JENN:

Yeah.

JENN:

And I think, and I think, like you were saying earlier, um, Brian, I

JENN:

think about things being restrictive.

JENN:

Maybe it was leaky, I can't remember, but somebody said that, um, there's a concept

JENN:

out there that it's restrictive, but actually sometimes it's easier, faster,

JENN:

and free or less expensive , which is not what we immediately think of when we think

JENN:

of, oh, going green is gonna cost more.

Leekei:

Yes, yes.

Leekei:

Yeah.

Leekei:

Yeah.

Leekei:

The, the, the example of water is perfect because water cost nothing.

JENN:

Yeah, or making coffee at home and putting it in your travel mug, you know,

JENN:

is going to be a lot less expensive than, you know, spending five bucks or whatever

JENN:

it is now at the local fancy shop.

JENN:

Right.

JENN:

Um, We have a huge coffee culture here, so there's coffee shops on every

JENN:

single corner and sometimes three

Brian:

Yes here as well.

JENN:

And so everyone's walking around, speaking of which

JENN:

I just knocked mine over.

JENN:

Um, everyone's walking around with something . and there are choices

JENN:

even in that, that you can make that are, you know, get, get your, uh, your

JENN:

reusable thing and have that instead.

JENN:

So yeah, habit

Brian:

Yeah, I love it.

Brian:

What do you think?

Brian:

I was, I was conflicted and I had two to choose from when we teed it up.

Brian:

Do you think we have time for a second one if I throw another one out?

JENN:

out.

JENN:

I think so.

JENN:

We can do one

JENN:

more

Brian:

so?

Brian:

We'll

JENN:

think leaky one can

Leekei:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leekei:

You have 14 minutes

JENN:

yeah.

Leekei:

to go.

Leekei:

Yep.

Brian:

Okay.

Brian:

Well, so last night I, uh, attended an event.

Brian:

It was, uh, I've been to this event a few times, but this was

Brian:

the first time that the annual event happened since the pandemic.

Brian:

It was the first time we all came back physically together, um, in New York City.

Brian:

And it was the sort of annual dinner, uh, and sort of awards dinner

Brian:

for the Global Fund for widows.

Brian:

Which is, uh, an impressive organization that focuses on, um, essentially the,

Brian:

the plight of widows around the globe in, in, in a many, many corners of globe.

Brian:

Um, and especially much of their work is in, is in the continent of Africa.

Brian:

And the sort of focuses on, uh, setting up with SAS as they're referred to these

Brian:

sort of Uh, it's a community funded bank that sort of, they, some dollars

Brian:

come in, the widows in the community put dollars in as well, and then it's sort of,

Brian:

there's rules and operations around it.

Brian:

And this, uh, there was this conversation about, and they were celebrating the, um,

Brian:

and actually Ola Bji isn't here today.

Brian:

Um, and I, I wish she was here today, um, to help me.

Brian:

But one of the honorees, one of the guests of honor, um, was the

Brian:

former first Lady of Nigeria.

Brian:

Um, Madam a Joki Mohamed.

Brian:

I think I got that pretty right, but, but he might have been able to correct

Brian:

me slightly and, and uh, and actually her daughter, Madam Aisha, Mohammed Oya bok.

Brian:

Um, and they were being honored in part for many of their things, and I won't

Brian:

go into those, but it was a moment as I was sitting there having been to

Brian:

these events, uh, in support of this concept of helping widows who often in

Brian:

many cultures and situations are you.

Brian:

Should their spouse or husband die.

Brian:

They're sort of disenfranchised and disempowered in ways that are very

Brian:

problematic to their situation, the situation of their children.

Brian:

Uh, their assets are sort of re transferred and redistributed, and there's

Brian:

all these like challenge very challenging things that, that arise as a result.

Brian:

Um, and.

Brian:

Having worked on the Carbon Almanac in the last couple years sitting there at

Brian:

this moment, one of the things that, um, you know, a number of authors and the,

Brian:

the Drawdown Project has focused on is one of the biggest areas that we can

Brian:

create climate impact in is actually in the empowerment and education of young,

Brian:

young girls, principally and young women.

Brian:

Um, and.

Brian:

The cascading effects that come out of that have significant impact on

Brian:

decisions, um, in a, in avol, you know, volume, uh, large way that have a very

Brian:

positive impact on the environment and moving things in the right direction.

Brian:

And so I was sitting here thinking and having some conversations about this.

Brian:

You know, what to me had felt like being involved in something that's helping.

Brian:

Humans and their experience be better.

Brian:

But then in leaky, this goes a little bit to sort of like your thing.

Brian:

Like all of a sudden I was like, wait.

Brian:

This is helping humans who then, cuz they were focusing in part on, on them

Brian:

being able to afford school fees for their children and being able to, you

Brian:

know, and all these things that feed back into empowerment and education

Brian:

of young women across the globe in, in very disenfranchised situations.

Brian:

And I was like, oh wait, this is not just helping those people have a better

Brian:

existence, but then they're armed to make decisions in their life that will.

Brian:

Positive impact and the world will be a better place and move in the

Brian:

right direction of, and it was just this like really wonderful moment

Brian:

where like I hadn't really thought about, you know, supporting widows

Brian:

as in this sort of effort as like an environmental topic at all.

Brian:

It hadn't ever until last night at this event and I was like, oh yes,

Brian:

this is helping move that, that goal.

Brian:

You move towards that goal post as well.

Brian:

Um, so that was my second.

JENN:

You know what's great about that is I never thought of it that way either.

JENN:

And a number of years ago, um, One of our, uh, well, two of our daughters

JENN:

actually, but one of our daughters went to, uh, Guatemala and we have

JENN:

friends who have partnered with a little village there and a school, and it's

JENN:

very expensive to send girls to school.

JENN:

The boys get to go, but the girls.

JENN:

mostly don't.

JENN:

And um, and so our family made a decision probably six or seven years ago.

JENN:

Instead of giving gifts to each other at Christmas, we are sending girls to school.

JENN:

And so we've been paying for a number of girls, like two or three girls to go.

JENN:

And one of the, one of the young women now is in medical school and she is, I think,

JENN:

Soon going to be finished, we're hoping.

JENN:

Um, but we're getting, we get letters and our friends take things back and

JENN:

forth and, um, but we get together and we play games and we have a wonderful time.

JENN:

And then we just throw money in, in whatever amounts and

JENN:

envelopes into a basket.

JENN:

And then we, we send what we have, uh, what we would've

JENN:

spent to, to this village.

JENN:

And they've built a new school because a, a whole bunch of people we know are doing.

JENN:

They've got a beautiful new school and they've got a number of girls

JENN:

who have now graduated and uh, and are going on to other things.

JENN:

And I've never thought of this in an environmental way.

JENN:

I know that, that we were feeling pretty good about having people

Brian:

impact.

Brian:

Yeah.

JENN:

you know, learning and, and not just, you know, getting.

JENN:

Um, ending up having families at, you know, a really young age.

JENN:

Um, but they're going to school and they end up educating their family also,

JENN:

you know, sharing what they've learned.

JENN:

And so it has an impact that way, but I never thought of it in an

JENN:

environmental sense, so that's, that's really cool to think of that.

Brian:

Yeah.

Brian:

I, I love that story.

Brian:

And, and I'm, I want to add, I think, another environmental layer to it.

Brian:

And this one may be one that you'd already thought about, which.

Brian:

is, and then there's not all those different gifts that often might

Brian:

be, you know, products, plastics, those kind of things, being passed

Brian:

around with all those things.

Brian:

I, I really like that.

JENN:

We play a game where we have to take something that we have in

JENN:

our house that we don't want anymore, and we wrap it up and put it under

JENN:

the tree, and then everybody plays the, the game where they get to open.

JENN:

And some of them are horrible and they've been going around for years, but it's ver

JENN:

it's like, oh no, you got the gift right,

Brian:

Right.

Brian:

Right.

Leekei:

And no one is allowed to throw it away.

JENN:

Well, you can't buy something for this game.

JENN:

It has to come from something you already have.

JENN:

Yeah.

JENN:

It's very fun.

JENN:

So we still have fun and we still unwrap things, but yeah, we, uh, yeah, it's fun.

Brian:

I, that's great.

Brian:

I wonder if the, like I could definitely see.

Brian:

My kids having almost more fun with the, like, the humor.

Brian:

There's a lot of humor in that, right?

Brian:

And like my kids love those.

Brian:

Kind of like really fun, over the top kind of humor things.

Brian:

I could de this, this, this, uh, habit of yours.

Brian:

This pattern may show up in my household here momentarily.

Brian:

I'm gonna go tell my kids about it.

JENN:

Oh, this has been a fun conversation.

JENN:

Thank you so much for today.

JENN:

I loved it.

Leekei:

Thank you.

Brian:

Thank you, Jen.

Brian:

Thank you

Leekei:

Thank you.

Leekei:

Thank you.

Leekei:

Bye.

LYNN:

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LYNN:

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LYNN:

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LYNN:

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LYNN:

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Carbon Almanac

When it comes to the climate, we don’t need more marketing or anxiety. We need established facts and a plan for collective action.

The climate is the fundamental issue of our time, and now we face a critical decision. Whether to be optimistic or fatalistic, whether to profess skepticism or to take action. Yet it seems we can barely agree on what is really going on, let alone what needs to be done. We urgently need facts, not opinions. Insights, not statistics. And a shift from thinking about climate change as a “me” problem to a “we” problem.

The Carbon Almanac is a once-in-a-lifetime collaboration between hundreds of writers, researchers, thinkers, and illustrators that focuses on what we know, what has come before, and what might happen next. Drawing on over 1,000 data points, the book uses cartoons, quotes, illustrations, tables, histories, and articles to lay out carbon’s impact on our food system, ocean acidity, agriculture, energy, biodiversity, extreme weather events, the economy, human health, and best and worst-case scenarios. Visually engaging and built to share, The Carbon Almanac is the definitive source for facts and the basis for a global movement to fight climate change.

This isn’t what the oil companies, marketers, activists, or politicians want you to believe. This is what’s really happening, right now. Our planet is in trouble, and no one concerned group, corporation, country, or hemisphere can address this on its own. Self-interest only increases the problem. We are in this together. And it’s not too late to for concerted, collective action for change.