Episode 148

Time-Tested Technology and Reviving Ancient Wisdom for Modern Sustainability

Episode Summary: In this episode of CarbonSessions, hosts Leekei, Jenn, and Kristina dive into the fascinating world of ancient low-tech solutions being reimagined for modern environmental challenges. They explore how businesses are harnessing time-tested technologies to create sustainable solutions for today's world.

Key discussion points include:

  • Reviving Ancient Maritime Techniques: The hosts discuss the innovative use of "wind wings" on cargo ships, a modern twist on traditional sails, to reduce reliance on fossil fuels.
  • Simple Pleasures of Snail Mail: The conversation shifts to the joys of traditional letter writing, specifically a service that sends story chapters via snail mail, fostering connections and sparking imaginations in a low-tech manner.
  • Sustainable Milling Practices: They explore the revival of water-powered mills with stone grinders in the Czech Republic, celebrating the unique taste and nutritional value of traditionally milled flour.
  • Solar-Powered Bakeries: Highlighting a bakery in Normandy that bakes bread using solar energy, the hosts discuss how this eco-friendly approach is spreading across France.
  • Baby-Led Weaning: The discussion turns to the trend of baby-led weaning, where infants transition directly from breast milk or formula to real food, bypassing the need for processed baby food.

Through these examples, the episode showcases how blending ancient wisdom with modern innovation can lead to environmentally friendly and sustainable business practices.

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org


Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.


Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Jenn Swanson and Kristina Horning.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Transcript
Speaker:

Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

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A podcast with Carbon Conversations

for every day with everyone

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from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

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can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Hi, it's Nikki.

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Hi, it's Kristina.

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Hi, it's Jen.

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. Today we're going to talk about something.

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Wow.

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I think it's fascinating.

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, the other day I was listening to the

radio and I heard someone, some, some

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journalist talking about hydrogen

and , the journalist seemed to be

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very, very excited about hydrogen.

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But then.

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Then someone said, yeah, but you

know, it's not that we don't have the

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technology to solve climate change

or to be better with the environment.

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Almost everything is here.

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And it's just that we don't have the

will or we don't want to transform the

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way we've been living up until now.

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And so that's why I suggested this

conversation on businesses that are based

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on an ancient technology, uh, something

like low tech or like something that, that

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is so obvious that has been used for ages.

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It doesn't pollute a lot and that

we could do incredible things.

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And we're going to talk about

these incredible businesses that

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have based their business on this

ancient low tech technologies.

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Who wants to start?

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I can start.

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Great.

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Okay.

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So, I have two.

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One of them is really big, and

one of them is really little,

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in all senses of the words.

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The first one is that I just found out

about recently is that cargo ships.

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are playing with, experimenting with,

going back to putting sails, S A I L

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S, on their ships, and they're calling

them wind wings, and they don't look

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like the, the cloth sails, they're

kind of like an inverted airplane wing

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with the flaps, they're, they're metal.

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But instead of using coal and,

and fuel, fossil fuels, they're

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going back to the ancient way that

ships used to sail across the sea.

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And 90 percent of the stuff that's

sent overseas is sent by ship.

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And so this is amazing.

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And there are actually companies that

have been testing this and thinking

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about this since 2010, I found out.

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But next year, there are, uh, some

things in place regulation wise,

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and they're going to be measuring

the fuel use, et cetera, and they're

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going to be testing with these wings.

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So it's pretty cool and exciting.

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And if you look it up online, um, NPR

and BBC and a whole bunch of places have

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photographs of these ships with these

vertical, uh, wings, like, um, uh, sort

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of like big steel panels with flaps.

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That act as sails so that they

can use less power or no power at

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some points and, and pick up the

wind, uh, the way it used to be.

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So that's really cool.

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That, that's really cool, but I find it

very weird to call it to sail cargo ship

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because when you mentioned sail, you

know, what I picture is the big, big, big.

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Close white cell, like sailboat, . But

yeah, I saw, yeah, I saw a picture of it.

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They actually look like, uh,

like smokestacks or something?

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, yeah.

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Like only the, you know

the, it's a sailboat.

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Yeah.

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Without the cell.

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Only with the mask, you know,

with the st, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But wide.

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So really cool.

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So that's my first thing.

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And the second thing I came across

recently that I would love to do

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with my grandson, but he's not big

enough yet, so I have to wait till.

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He can read, which he's, you know, he's

two and he's already knows his numbers

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and letters backwards and forwards.

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But anyway, I have to wait

for a little bit longer.

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I discovered a company that you

can sign up for and they will

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send, uh, a letter twice a month,

I think, to whoever you desire.

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And the letter is part of a story.

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And you open the letter, it's

paper, and it's beautifully

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illustrated, and there's a story.

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And the idea is that you can then connect

with the person who bought this for you.

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You could be miles and miles apart.

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and talk about the story and

wonder what's going to happen next.

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And every couple of weeks,

a letter comes in the mail,

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like old fashioned snail mail.

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And, uh, and it's just a delightful,

simple, old fashioned way.

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Um, inspiring imagination and, um,

and it's an activity for a child

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that doesn't require batteries.

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It isn't plastic, you know, and I thought

this is wonderful because we often don't

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get things in the mail anymore and how fun

for a child to get something like that.

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So I love this idea and I can't wait.

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So how does it work?

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Because you say that enables

, the kid to connect with the

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person who send the snail mail.

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So does it mean that you're going

to do it for your grandson?

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And then it's a way for your

grandson to connect with you?

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Yeah, it's just that the company

is the one like you buy it and then

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tell them the person's name and

everything else, the child's name.

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And then the company sends.

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This basically like a

dripped out story, right?

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You get a little chapter of the

story sent and it gets mailed in a

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beautiful envelope that the envelope

is beautiful, the paper is beautiful.

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And it has the child's name on it.

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And then every time they get

one, you can read it together.

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You can talk about it on the phone

if you're not nearby, you know,

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like there's just a way to connect.

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And then, you know, you can talk

about the characters and wonder

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what's going to happen next.

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It's almost like reading a book together,

only it's over, I think, a year.

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It's, it's like a long

time that the person.

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Uh, that gets an envelope in the mail.

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I mean, you could do

it for any age, right?

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But it's just kind of a fun thing.

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I love this idea.

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It is actually something I

did for my nieces and nephews.

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What I try to do every time I go

on holiday on the place that is not

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very well known, like no, no, that

is not very well known, but not a

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lot of people go on holiday too.

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What I try to do is to buy postcards.

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, with a stamp and send it to my

nieces and nephews, because as

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you said, we don't receive a lot

of letters and things through the

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traditional snail mail anymore.

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And I, I love to do it.

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I mean, this summer I went to Latvia

and you probably , guess that not

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many people go on holiday in Latvia.

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So that was the perfect excuse

for me to send in a postcard.

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And I did for my niece's and nephew

and think it's very beautiful

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because my six year old niece

thought it was a great idea.

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And so, so then she started

writing postcards as well to all

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of us when she went on holiday.

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And so I think it's, it's, it's,

uh, it's a very nice circle.

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It's, uh, it's starting a new

tradition, which I think is beautiful.

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And it's another way of, you know,

having this conversation and connecting.

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Great.

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I have one, uh, story

about, uh, food, food story.

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They started in Czech

Republic restoring mills.

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That run on water and they have the

old stones instead of, um, metal

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grinders, they have stone grinders

and they can make flour from basically

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anything, wheat, corn, all of it.

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It's getting popular because it tastes

different and all the nutrients are

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there and they cannot melt too much.

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So they don't have much storage.

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And so shelf life of these

flowers are, uh, very short, but

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the flowers are delicious and

you don't use any electricity.

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For milling the flour.

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And so I thought that was a wonderful

way to do something old ways.

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Oh, that's beautiful.

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That's wonderful.

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I bet the bread tastes so

good made with that flour.

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Yeah.

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And it rises different than works

with the yeast much easier, faster,

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because it's real flour with all

the little microbes and everybody

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that are good for rising the bread.

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Yeah.

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You know what's funny?

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That makes me think of, um, that we

were given, uh, as a hand me down,

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a big machine that makes coffee and

cappuccinos and I can't remember what

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they're called, but this thing was the

size of the old computer stack, you know,

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the big, like it's a giant thing and

they, they handed it down because they

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had gotten a new one and gave it to us.

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Not something we ever would

have gone out and bought.

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And honest to goodness, it

was so difficult to use.

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You had to take it apart, you had

to decalcify it, you had to clean

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it, and it wasted so much coffee

because you ground the coffee and

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then it would, it would do its thing

and it would make you a cup, right?

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And this thing, it took up so

much space, it took up so much

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bandwidth because we would be so

frustrated trying to make coffee.

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And you know, we have one cup of

coffee a day and our usual way of

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making coffee is a French press,

which is very old fashioned.

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You put the coffee in and you let

it sit and then you push it, plunge

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her down and there's your coffee.

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Right?

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So we ended up actually giving this

thing to somebody else because we

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just couldn't handle it anymore.

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It was too fancy and it had too

many parts that didn't work every

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once in a while and it might break.

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And, uh, and it took up so much

space instead of this little bodum

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that we have that you can tuck away,

you know, and sometimes simpler and

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old fashioned is just dang easy.

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Amazing on these mills.

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Some of them are made out of wood

instead of metal, all those wheels.

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And everything is made out of wood.

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It makes me laugh when, uh, you go into

restaurants now, like we have a big coffee

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culture in my corner of the world, and

it makes me laugh when they talk about

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pour overs, they have this fancy new name

for what used to be the Melita, you know,

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used to put the thing in the top of the.

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And just pour stuff in or pour

it into a pot with boiling water,

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which is like the old fashioned way.

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And now they call it a pour over, which

is exactly the same thing from the

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1960s and 70s that they've gone back to.

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And now it's very she she in the

coffee shops to have a pour over,

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which is like old technology.

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I looked at it and I'm like,

they're not doing anything different

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than my mother used to do before

automatic coffee maker drip machines.

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Right?

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It's really fun.

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Yeah, I still remember my grandmother

just grinding coffee in a small hand,

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uh, grinder for coffee and then putting

it in a cup, pouring hot water over

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it, let it settle and then drinking it.

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No filters, nothing, just

pure coffee and water.

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And it did settle, surprisingly.

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And if plus the timing was

perfect because it was too hot

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when you pour it and Mixed it in.

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And when it settled, it

was perfect temperature.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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They were so smart.

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And it's kind of like old

fashioned bread making.

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You know, I had a bread maker for years

when my kids were growing up and yes, it

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was convenient and all the rest of it.

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But.

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Um, I started making bread when I was

11 and baked beautiful braided egg

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loaves and sour dough and stuff that

looked gorgeous cause it was fun.

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And it didn't take anything

other than, you know, salt,

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water, flour, and, and yeast.

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And it was so simple.

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And, and so, you know, I don't

have a bread maker anymore, but

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if I'm going to make bread, I want

to do it the old fashioned way

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because it always tastes good.

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Yeah.

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Oh, that's wonderful.

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Yeah.

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With bread making for me, I

couldn't bake bread that tasted

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good and had good crust in the oven.

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And finally, my friend showed it to me and

she baked it in a pot with a lid first.

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And then at the end opened the pot, it's

like, Oh my God, that's so brilliant.

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Finally, perfect bread.

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Ah, so nice.

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Well, and I can't eat gluten

anymore because of the bread here,

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but I can eat properly fermented

sourdough, which is not easy to find.

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But when I find it, I love it

because I can actually eat that.

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But if it's not properly

fermented sourdough.

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Um, and there's a lot of

pretend sourdough out there.

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They put vinegar in it or

something to make it taste sour,

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but it's not actually sourdough.

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Then I'm sick.

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I like the old tile stoves.

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You can see them in Europe in castles and

big buildings, but they used to be in all

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the apartments and they would be about

two meters high, six, seven feet high.

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And very massive, it's a massive

structure, um, brick structure

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with tiles on the outside.

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And so you make a fire and it heats up.

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And so this whole mass holds

the heater and you don't have

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to feed it and heat it up.

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And then at night, and it keeps the

house really warm, the apartment.

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I like that.

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You can, in old buildings in the

countryside, they made beds on top of it

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so people even could sleep on top of it.

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The tile stuff were amazing.

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That's cool.

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We discussed coffee, we discussed

flow, and so I would like to

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shed a light on a solar bakery.

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A bakery that bakes bread, makes

bread only with solar energy.

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And this is a bakery that

is located in Normandy.

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So on the West Coast in France, not

the sunniest part of France, but

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you'll be surprised because we don't

need so much sun to bake bread.

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The way it works is that you

have this, a big, big, big, what

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they call a solar concentrator.

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The job of this device.

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Is to collect the sun and

then reflect it into an oven.

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So the way this thing is made is that it's

a big panel of, um, not so big actually.

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It's, um, uh, the, the size of it is 11

meters square and it has 69 small mirrors.

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And that all collects the energy from

the sun and reflected into an oven.

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And it takes one hour to heat the oven.

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And when the sun is very, very strong.

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The temperature goes up to 900 degrees,

but you don't need 900 degrees to bake.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you, you don't need 900

degrees, but when the sun is very

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bright, it can go up to 900 degrees.

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So in the video that I've seen that.

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On the day, like, you know, on a

day with some clouds, there's still

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sun, they can make up to four hours

of use of the, um, of the oven.

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And, uh, one hour of the use of oven

is you can make 40 kilos of bread.

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So, on a not so sunny day, like on

a cloudy day, you can make about,

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you know, 120, 160 kilos of bread.

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That is bread.

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And just imagine, uh, in the

summer, you know, how much bread

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you can make just with solar energy.

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And this business is inspired by solar

bakeries in Kenya and in Tanzania.

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It's something that they use over there.

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And so I think this is, uh,

this is really, really cool.

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But there's more, because sometimes they

don't have enough sun, um, because there's

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some days that there's just, you know,

it, it rains because it's in Normandy.

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So the weather is not always sunny.

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But what they do is because they want

to be energy frugal, if there's such a

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word, , when there's not enough sun for

the solar oven, what they do is they use

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this wood fire oven to, to bake bread.

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So that way they can provide

bread to their customers.

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And because they have this idea of

being very, uh, frugal with energy,

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um, everything they do is, I mean, when

they can do it, they do it manually.

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Like when you make bread,

you have to, um, knead it.

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You know, you need it when you need it.

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And so they do it by hand.

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There's no fridge and because

it's a business, so they do all

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the delivery on the bike, e bike.

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So I think this is, um, this is great.

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, and , this bakery, this is the

first bakery in France, but they

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want to transform the sector.

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What they want to do is

to make things better.

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And so they provide training.

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And as of.

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This year in, I think it was in

April, they have converted 10 bakeries

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in France to use the solar oven.

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Wow.

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That's fantastic.

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That really is.

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That really is.

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I bet it tastes good too.

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Now I'm hungry.

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I'm sure it's good, yeah.

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Yeah, but I'm actually doing more than

just making bread because they also

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use, when there's a lot of sun, they

also use the energy , from the sun

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and the heat from the oven to roast

beans because they were trying , to

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offer an alternative sources of beans.

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To peanuts, spices,

chocolate, and coffees.

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So they use the, the heat when

they have baked too many breads.

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And when the oven is still hot,

they use it to roast beans.

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So they're not wasting the

heat at all, which is great.

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No.

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Yeah.

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And, um, yeah.

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And so they're trying to promote other

like spices or way of making beverages.

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Very cool.

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Yeah.

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People are smart.

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They figure out things.

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Well, and I wonder too, if there's

trends, like there's, you know, trends

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with ideas and ways of doing things that

come in and out of fashion too, you know?

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Yes.

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Because last week you talk

about cardboard cameras.

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Yeah.

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Paper cameras.

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Yeah.

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Paper cameras.

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They're very, they're very trendy.

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Um, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, another thing that's trendy.

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Lately, that makes a lot of sense,

saves a lot of money, saves a lot

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of, um, everything, is a new thing.

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Well, it's a new thing.

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It's a new thing now.

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It's called baby lead weaning.

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Have you heard of it?

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And so it's not using

baby food in jars anymore.

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I used to make my baby food,

but now a lot of parents are not

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even giving their kids baby food.

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They're giving them regular food,

just in little pieces, and there's

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a whole way of thinking that.

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Children need to learn how to chew and

swallow and not choke, and that they can

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do it from a really, really young age.

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Part of what they need is a foot panel

on the high chair, because if you

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choke, your natural thing is to push.

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And so they want to make sure there's a

place to put their feet so they can push.

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And then the parents take first

aid so they know, you know, what

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to do if a child starts choking.

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Think of very tiny babies.

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are going now straight from breast milk

or a formula to actually eating real food.

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And there's no more of this feeding

with the baby food jars of food.

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And I thought, wow, this is old

again, going back to how it used

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to be, but it eliminates that whole

section of time where you need to

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buy jarred processed pre manufactured

baby food that has to, you know, be

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:

shipped on trucks and all this stuff.

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:

And I thought, wow, that like.

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:

Everything old is new again.

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:

And it's so healthy for kids to touch

it with their hands because that

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:

way they get all the information

from the reflexes and putting in

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their mouths instead of being fed.

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That's brilliant.

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:

Yeah.

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:

Yeah.

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They call it baby led weaning and

it's little pieces of things and

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there's particular things that they

recommend not doing until they're.

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You know, a bit older, but I

watched it happen and thought,

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:

wow, we never did this.

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:

We had jars of baby food or

we made our own baby food.

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:

That's great.

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:

So much smarter.

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:

That's so great.

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:

Yeah.

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:

I, I'm, I'm curious, Jen and Christina,

when you started this conversation,

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you say that there's something that

is big and something that is smaller.

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:

What is the big thing?

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:

What is a small thing?

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:

Oh, for me, the big thing was

the big ships and a big, big

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:

companies and an entire industry.

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:

And.

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The little thing for me, because

that's a big global thing and,

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:

and a manufacturing thing.

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:

And it's, it's a big, big, big, big thing.

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:

And the small thing was the sending

of letters and we can all do that.

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We can all, you could write your own

stories and send them or send postcards

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:

like you do Leakey and just do something

that's delightful and low tech because.

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:

Children don't necessarily need

everything to be computerized

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:

or done for them, right?

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:

To be able to have something in

your hand that you can hold, that

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:

you can look forward to getting.

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:

That you can read yourself or with

help and that's, you know, there's so

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:

much room for delight and imagination

in something so simple and so small.

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:

So that's what I was thinking.

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:

Yeah.

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:

But that's precisely why I think

that the, this letter thing is the

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:

much bigger thing than this ship with

boat, because you don't need to wait,

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:

you can do it right away and anybody

can do it and you can do it with.

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:

The new generation, you know,

the generation of the future.

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:

So that's, that's very,

very, very big to me.

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:

Well played.

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:

Well played.

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:

Okay.

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:

That was fun.

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:

That was wonderful.

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:

That was fun.

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:

Now we're all going to run out and

write letters and go eat bread.

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:

Get the yeast going, the farther going.

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:

That's right.

421

:

Yeah.

422

:

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:

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424

:

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425

:

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:

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:

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428

:

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:

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:

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:

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:

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:

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About the Podcast

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Carbon Conversations for every day, with everyone, from everywhere in the world.

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Carbon Almanac

When it comes to the climate, we don’t need more marketing or anxiety. We need established facts and a plan for collective action.

The climate is the fundamental issue of our time, and now we face a critical decision. Whether to be optimistic or fatalistic, whether to profess skepticism or to take action. Yet it seems we can barely agree on what is really going on, let alone what needs to be done. We urgently need facts, not opinions. Insights, not statistics. And a shift from thinking about climate change as a “me” problem to a “we” problem.

The Carbon Almanac is a once-in-a-lifetime collaboration between hundreds of writers, researchers, thinkers, and illustrators that focuses on what we know, what has come before, and what might happen next. Drawing on over 1,000 data points, the book uses cartoons, quotes, illustrations, tables, histories, and articles to lay out carbon’s impact on our food system, ocean acidity, agriculture, energy, biodiversity, extreme weather events, the economy, human health, and best and worst-case scenarios. Visually engaging and built to share, The Carbon Almanac is the definitive source for facts and the basis for a global movement to fight climate change.

This isn’t what the oil companies, marketers, activists, or politicians want you to believe. This is what’s really happening, right now. Our planet is in trouble, and no one concerned group, corporation, country, or hemisphere can address this on its own. Self-interest only increases the problem. We are in this together. And it’s not too late to for concerted, collective action for change.