Time-Tested Technology and Reviving Ancient Wisdom for Modern Sustainability

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Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

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A podcast with Carbon Conversations

for every day with everyone

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from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

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can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Hi, it's Nikki.

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Hi, it's Kristina.

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Hi, it's Jen.

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. Today we're going to talk about something.

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Wow.

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I think it's fascinating.

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, the other day I was listening to the

radio and I heard someone, some, some

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journalist talking about hydrogen

and , the journalist seemed to be

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very, very excited about hydrogen.

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But then.

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Then someone said, yeah, but you

know, it's not that we don't have the

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technology to solve climate change

or to be better with the environment.

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Almost everything is here.

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And it's just that we don't have the

will or we don't want to transform the

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way we've been living up until now.

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And so that's why I suggested this

conversation on businesses that are based

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on an ancient technology, uh, something

like low tech or like something that, that

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is so obvious that has been used for ages.

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It doesn't pollute a lot and that

we could do incredible things.

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And we're going to talk about

these incredible businesses that

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have based their business on this

ancient low tech technologies.

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Who wants to start?

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I can start.

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Great.

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Okay.

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So, I have two.

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One of them is really big, and

one of them is really little,

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in all senses of the words.

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The first one is that I just found out

about recently is that cargo ships.

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are playing with, experimenting with,

going back to putting sails, S A I L

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S, on their ships, and they're calling

them wind wings, and they don't look

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like the, the cloth sails, they're

kind of like an inverted airplane wing

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with the flaps, they're, they're metal.

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But instead of using coal and,

and fuel, fossil fuels, they're

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going back to the ancient way that

ships used to sail across the sea.

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And 90 percent of the stuff that's

sent overseas is sent by ship.

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And so this is amazing.

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And there are actually companies that

have been testing this and thinking

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about this since 2010, I found out.

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But next year, there are, uh, some

things in place regulation wise,

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and they're going to be measuring

the fuel use, et cetera, and they're

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going to be testing with these wings.

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So it's pretty cool and exciting.

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And if you look it up online, um, NPR

and BBC and a whole bunch of places have

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photographs of these ships with these

vertical, uh, wings, like, um, uh, sort

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of like big steel panels with flaps.

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That act as sails so that they

can use less power or no power at

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some points and, and pick up the

wind, uh, the way it used to be.

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So that's really cool.

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That, that's really cool, but I find it

very weird to call it to sail cargo ship

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because when you mentioned sail, you

know, what I picture is the big, big, big.

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Close white cell, like sailboat, . But

yeah, I saw, yeah, I saw a picture of it.

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They actually look like, uh,

like smokestacks or something?

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, yeah.

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Like only the, you know

the, it's a sailboat.

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Yeah.

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Without the cell.

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Only with the mask, you know,

with the st, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But wide.

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So really cool.

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So that's my first thing.

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And the second thing I came across

recently that I would love to do

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with my grandson, but he's not big

enough yet, so I have to wait till.

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He can read, which he's, you know, he's

two and he's already knows his numbers

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and letters backwards and forwards.

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But anyway, I have to wait

for a little bit longer.

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I discovered a company that you

can sign up for and they will

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send, uh, a letter twice a month,

I think, to whoever you desire.

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And the letter is part of a story.

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And you open the letter, it's

paper, and it's beautifully

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illustrated, and there's a story.

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And the idea is that you can then connect

with the person who bought this for you.

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You could be miles and miles apart.

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and talk about the story and

wonder what's going to happen next.

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And every couple of weeks,

a letter comes in the mail,

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like old fashioned snail mail.

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And, uh, and it's just a delightful,

simple, old fashioned way.

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Um, inspiring imagination and, um,

and it's an activity for a child

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that doesn't require batteries.

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It isn't plastic, you know, and I thought

this is wonderful because we often don't

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get things in the mail anymore and how fun

for a child to get something like that.

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So I love this idea and I can't wait.

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So how does it work?

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Because you say that enables

, the kid to connect with the

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person who send the snail mail.

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So does it mean that you're going

to do it for your grandson?

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And then it's a way for your

grandson to connect with you?

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Yeah, it's just that the company

is the one like you buy it and then

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tell them the person's name and

everything else, the child's name.

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And then the company sends.

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This basically like a

dripped out story, right?

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You get a little chapter of the

story sent and it gets mailed in a

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beautiful envelope that the envelope

is beautiful, the paper is beautiful.

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And it has the child's name on it.

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And then every time they get

one, you can read it together.

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You can talk about it on the phone

if you're not nearby, you know,

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like there's just a way to connect.

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And then, you know, you can talk

about the characters and wonder

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what's going to happen next.

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It's almost like reading a book together,

only it's over, I think, a year.

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It's, it's like a long

time that the person.

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Uh, that gets an envelope in the mail.

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I mean, you could do

it for any age, right?

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But it's just kind of a fun thing.

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I love this idea.

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It is actually something I

did for my nieces and nephews.

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What I try to do every time I go

on holiday on the place that is not

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very well known, like no, no, that

is not very well known, but not a

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lot of people go on holiday too.

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What I try to do is to buy postcards.

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, with a stamp and send it to my

nieces and nephews, because as

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you said, we don't receive a lot

of letters and things through the

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traditional snail mail anymore.

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And I, I love to do it.

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I mean, this summer I went to Latvia

and you probably , guess that not

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many people go on holiday in Latvia.

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So that was the perfect excuse

for me to send in a postcard.

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And I did for my niece's and nephew

and think it's very beautiful

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because my six year old niece

thought it was a great idea.

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And so, so then she started

writing postcards as well to all

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of us when she went on holiday.

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And so I think it's, it's, it's,

uh, it's a very nice circle.

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It's, uh, it's starting a new

tradition, which I think is beautiful.

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And it's another way of, you know,

having this conversation and connecting.

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Great.

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I have one, uh, story

about, uh, food, food story.

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They started in Czech

Republic restoring mills.

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That run on water and they have the

old stones instead of, um, metal

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grinders, they have stone grinders

and they can make flour from basically

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anything, wheat, corn, all of it.

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It's getting popular because it tastes

different and all the nutrients are

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there and they cannot melt too much.

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So they don't have much storage.

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And so shelf life of these

flowers are, uh, very short, but

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the flowers are delicious and

you don't use any electricity.

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For milling the flour.

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And so I thought that was a wonderful

way to do something old ways.

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Oh, that's beautiful.

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That's wonderful.

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I bet the bread tastes so

good made with that flour.

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Yeah.

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And it rises different than works

with the yeast much easier, faster,

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because it's real flour with all

the little microbes and everybody

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that are good for rising the bread.

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Yeah.

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You know what's funny?

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That makes me think of, um, that we

were given, uh, as a hand me down,

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a big machine that makes coffee and

cappuccinos and I can't remember what

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they're called, but this thing was the

size of the old computer stack, you know,

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the big, like it's a giant thing and

they, they handed it down because they

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had gotten a new one and gave it to us.

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Not something we ever would

have gone out and bought.

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And honest to goodness, it

was so difficult to use.

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You had to take it apart, you had

to decalcify it, you had to clean

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it, and it wasted so much coffee

because you ground the coffee and

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then it would, it would do its thing

and it would make you a cup, right?

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And this thing, it took up so

much space, it took up so much

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bandwidth because we would be so

frustrated trying to make coffee.

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And you know, we have one cup of

coffee a day and our usual way of

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making coffee is a French press,

which is very old fashioned.

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You put the coffee in and you let

it sit and then you push it, plunge

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her down and there's your coffee.

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Right?

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So we ended up actually giving this

thing to somebody else because we

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just couldn't handle it anymore.

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It was too fancy and it had too

many parts that didn't work every

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once in a while and it might break.

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And, uh, and it took up so much

space instead of this little bodum

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that we have that you can tuck away,

you know, and sometimes simpler and

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old fashioned is just dang easy.

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Amazing on these mills.

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Some of them are made out of wood

instead of metal, all those wheels.

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And everything is made out of wood.

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It makes me laugh when, uh, you go into

restaurants now, like we have a big coffee

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culture in my corner of the world, and

it makes me laugh when they talk about

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pour overs, they have this fancy new name

for what used to be the Melita, you know,

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used to put the thing in the top of the.

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And just pour stuff in or pour

it into a pot with boiling water,

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which is like the old fashioned way.

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And now they call it a pour over, which

is exactly the same thing from the

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1960s and 70s that they've gone back to.

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And now it's very she she in the

coffee shops to have a pour over,

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which is like old technology.

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I looked at it and I'm like,

they're not doing anything different

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than my mother used to do before

automatic coffee maker drip machines.

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Right?

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It's really fun.

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Yeah, I still remember my grandmother

just grinding coffee in a small hand,

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uh, grinder for coffee and then putting

it in a cup, pouring hot water over

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it, let it settle and then drinking it.

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No filters, nothing, just

pure coffee and water.

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And it did settle, surprisingly.

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And if plus the timing was

perfect because it was too hot

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when you pour it and Mixed it in.

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And when it settled, it

was perfect temperature.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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They were so smart.

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And it's kind of like old

fashioned bread making.

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You know, I had a bread maker for years

when my kids were growing up and yes, it

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was convenient and all the rest of it.

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But.

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Um, I started making bread when I was

11 and baked beautiful braided egg

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loaves and sour dough and stuff that

looked gorgeous cause it was fun.

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And it didn't take anything

other than, you know, salt,

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water, flour, and, and yeast.

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And it was so simple.

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And, and so, you know, I don't

have a bread maker anymore, but

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if I'm going to make bread, I want

to do it the old fashioned way

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because it always tastes good.

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Yeah.

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Oh, that's wonderful.

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Yeah.

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With bread making for me, I

couldn't bake bread that tasted

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good and had good crust in the oven.

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And finally, my friend showed it to me and

she baked it in a pot with a lid first.

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And then at the end opened the pot, it's

like, Oh my God, that's so brilliant.

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Finally, perfect bread.

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Ah, so nice.

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Well, and I can't eat gluten

anymore because of the bread here,

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but I can eat properly fermented

sourdough, which is not easy to find.

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But when I find it, I love it

because I can actually eat that.

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But if it's not properly

fermented sourdough.

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Um, and there's a lot of

pretend sourdough out there.

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They put vinegar in it or

something to make it taste sour,

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but it's not actually sourdough.

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Then I'm sick.

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I like the old tile stoves.

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You can see them in Europe in castles and

big buildings, but they used to be in all

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the apartments and they would be about

two meters high, six, seven feet high.

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And very massive, it's a massive

structure, um, brick structure

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with tiles on the outside.

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And so you make a fire and it heats up.

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And so this whole mass holds

the heater and you don't have

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to feed it and heat it up.

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And then at night, and it keeps the

house really warm, the apartment.

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I like that.

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You can, in old buildings in the

countryside, they made beds on top of it

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so people even could sleep on top of it.

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The tile stuff were amazing.

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That's cool.

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We discussed coffee, we discussed

flow, and so I would like to

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shed a light on a solar bakery.

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A bakery that bakes bread, makes

bread only with solar energy.

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And this is a bakery that

is located in Normandy.

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So on the West Coast in France, not

the sunniest part of France, but

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you'll be surprised because we don't

need so much sun to bake bread.

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The way it works is that you

have this, a big, big, big, what

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they call a solar concentrator.

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The job of this device.

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Is to collect the sun and

then reflect it into an oven.

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So the way this thing is made is that it's

a big panel of, um, not so big actually.

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It's, um, uh, the, the size of it is 11

meters square and it has 69 small mirrors.

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And that all collects the energy from

the sun and reflected into an oven.

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And it takes one hour to heat the oven.

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And when the sun is very, very strong.

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The temperature goes up to 900 degrees,

but you don't need 900 degrees to bake.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, you, you don't need 900

degrees, but when the sun is very

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bright, it can go up to 900 degrees.

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So in the video that I've seen that.

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On the day, like, you know, on a

day with some clouds, there's still

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sun, they can make up to four hours

of use of the, um, of the oven.

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And, uh, one hour of the use of oven

is you can make 40 kilos of bread.

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So, on a not so sunny day, like on

a cloudy day, you can make about,

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you know, 120, 160 kilos of bread.

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That is bread.

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And just imagine, uh, in the

summer, you know, how much bread

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you can make just with solar energy.

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And this business is inspired by solar

bakeries in Kenya and in Tanzania.

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It's something that they use over there.

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And so I think this is, uh,

this is really, really cool.

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But there's more, because sometimes they

don't have enough sun, um, because there's

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some days that there's just, you know,

it, it rains because it's in Normandy.

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So the weather is not always sunny.

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But what they do is because they want

to be energy frugal, if there's such a

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word, , when there's not enough sun for

the solar oven, what they do is they use

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this wood fire oven to, to bake bread.

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So that way they can provide

bread to their customers.

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And because they have this idea of

being very, uh, frugal with energy,

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um, everything they do is, I mean, when

they can do it, they do it manually.

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Like when you make bread,

you have to, um, knead it.

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You know, you need it when you need it.

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And so they do it by hand.

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There's no fridge and because

it's a business, so they do all

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the delivery on the bike, e bike.

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So I think this is, um, this is great.

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, and , this bakery, this is the

first bakery in France, but they

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want to transform the sector.

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What they want to do is

to make things better.

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And so they provide training.

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And as of.

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This year in, I think it was in

April, they have converted 10 bakeries

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in France to use the solar oven.

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Wow.

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That's fantastic.

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That really is.

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That really is.

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I bet it tastes good too.

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Now I'm hungry.

315

: 00:19:15

I'm sure it's good, yeah.

316

: 00:19:18

Yeah, but I'm actually doing more than

just making bread because they also

317

: 00:19:22

use, when there's a lot of sun, they

also use the energy , from the sun

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: 00:19:26

and the heat from the oven to roast

beans because they were trying , to

319

: 00:19:32

offer an alternative sources of beans.

320

: 00:19:36

To peanuts, spices,

chocolate, and coffees.

321

: 00:19:39

So they use the, the heat when

they have baked too many breads.

322

: 00:19:44

And when the oven is still hot,

they use it to roast beans.

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: 00:19:48

So they're not wasting the

heat at all, which is great.

324

: 00:19:51

No.

325

: 00:19:52

Yeah.

326

: 00:19:53

And, um, yeah.

327

: 00:19:54

And so they're trying to promote other

like spices or way of making beverages.

328

: 00:20:01

Very cool.

329

: 00:20:03

Yeah.

330

: 00:20:05

People are smart.

331

: 00:20:06

They figure out things.

332

: 00:20:09

Well, and I wonder too, if there's

trends, like there's, you know, trends

333

: 00:20:14

with ideas and ways of doing things that

come in and out of fashion too, you know?

334

: 00:20:21

Yes.

335

: 00:20:21

Because last week you talk

about cardboard cameras.

336

: 00:20:27

Yeah.

337

: 00:20:27

Paper cameras.

338

: 00:20:28

Yeah.

339

: 00:20:28

Paper cameras.

340

: 00:20:29

They're very, they're very trendy.

341

: 00:20:31

Um, yeah.

342

: 00:20:33

Yeah.

343

: 00:20:34

Um, another thing that's trendy.

344

: 00:20:36

Lately, that makes a lot of sense,

saves a lot of money, saves a lot

345

: 00:20:41

of, um, everything, is a new thing.

346

: 00:20:46

Well, it's a new thing.

347

: 00:20:48

It's a new thing now.

348

: 00:20:49

It's called baby lead weaning.

349

: 00:20:51

Have you heard of it?

350

: 00:20:52

And so it's not using

baby food in jars anymore.

351

: 00:20:58

I used to make my baby food,

but now a lot of parents are not

352

: 00:21:04

even giving their kids baby food.

353

: 00:21:06

They're giving them regular food,

just in little pieces, and there's

354

: 00:21:12

a whole way of thinking that.

355

: 00:21:16

Children need to learn how to chew and

swallow and not choke, and that they can

356

: 00:21:21

do it from a really, really young age.

357

: 00:21:24

Part of what they need is a foot panel

on the high chair, because if you

358

: 00:21:28

choke, your natural thing is to push.

359

: 00:21:31

And so they want to make sure there's a

place to put their feet so they can push.

360

: 00:21:36

And then the parents take first

aid so they know, you know, what

361

: 00:21:40

to do if a child starts choking.

362

: 00:21:42

Think of very tiny babies.

363

: 00:21:44

are going now straight from breast milk

or a formula to actually eating real food.

364

: 00:21:51

And there's no more of this feeding

with the baby food jars of food.

365

: 00:21:57

And I thought, wow, this is old

again, going back to how it used

366

: 00:22:04

to be, but it eliminates that whole

section of time where you need to

367

: 00:22:10

buy jarred processed pre manufactured

baby food that has to, you know, be

368

: 00:22:19

shipped on trucks and all this stuff.

369

: 00:22:20

And I thought, wow, that like.

370

: 00:22:23

Everything old is new again.

371

: 00:22:27

And it's so healthy for kids to touch

it with their hands because that

372

: 00:22:31

way they get all the information

from the reflexes and putting in

373

: 00:22:36

their mouths instead of being fed.

374

: 00:22:39

That's brilliant.

375

: 00:22:40

Yeah.

376

: 00:22:41

Yeah.

377

: 00:22:41

They call it baby led weaning and

it's little pieces of things and

378

: 00:22:46

there's particular things that they

recommend not doing until they're.

379

: 00:22:50

You know, a bit older, but I

watched it happen and thought,

380

: 00:22:57

wow, we never did this.

381

: 00:22:58

We had jars of baby food or

we made our own baby food.

382

: 00:23:03

That's great.

383

: 00:23:04

So much smarter.

384

: 00:23:06

That's so great.

385

: 00:23:07

Yeah.

386

: 00:23:09

I, I'm, I'm curious, Jen and Christina,

when you started this conversation,

387

: 00:23:15

you say that there's something that

is big and something that is smaller.

388

: 00:23:20

What is the big thing?

389

: 00:23:21

What is a small thing?

390

: 00:23:23

Oh, for me, the big thing was

the big ships and a big, big

391

: 00:23:27

companies and an entire industry.

392

: 00:23:31

And.

393

: 00:23:32

The little thing for me, because

that's a big global thing and,

394

: 00:23:37

and a manufacturing thing.

395

: 00:23:38

And it's, it's a big, big, big, big thing.

396

: 00:23:41

And the small thing was the sending

of letters and we can all do that.

397

: 00:23:48

We can all, you could write your own

stories and send them or send postcards

398

: 00:23:52

like you do Leakey and just do something

that's delightful and low tech because.

399

: 00:23:58

Children don't necessarily need

everything to be computerized

400

: 00:24:02

or done for them, right?

401

: 00:24:04

To be able to have something in

your hand that you can hold, that

402

: 00:24:07

you can look forward to getting.

403

: 00:24:09

That you can read yourself or with

help and that's, you know, there's so

404

: 00:24:15

much room for delight and imagination

in something so simple and so small.

405

: 00:24:20

So that's what I was thinking.

406

: 00:24:22

Yeah.

407

: 00:24:22

But that's precisely why I think

that the, this letter thing is the

408

: 00:24:26

much bigger thing than this ship with

boat, because you don't need to wait,

409

: 00:24:31

you can do it right away and anybody

can do it and you can do it with.

410

: 00:24:36

The new generation, you know,

the generation of the future.

411

: 00:24:39

So that's, that's very,

very, very big to me.

412

: 00:24:44

Well played.

413

: 00:24:45

Well played.

414

: 00:24:48

Okay.

415

: 00:24:49

That was fun.

416

: 00:24:50

That was wonderful.

417

: 00:24:53

That was fun.

418

: 00:24:54

Now we're all going to run out and

write letters and go eat bread.

419

: 00:24:59

Get the yeast going, the farther going.

420

: 00:25:02

That's right.

421

: 00:25:03

Yeah.

422

: 00:25:05

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423

: 00:25:09

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424

: 00:25:14

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425

: 00:25:17

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426

: 00:25:20

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427

: 00:25:23

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428

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430

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431

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435

: 00:25:52

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436

: 00:25:55

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