Episode 86
Tips and Framework To Deal With Eco Anxiety
Episode Summary: climate change impacts mental health as learning about the facts and science behind climate change can be stressful and overwhelming. So what can we do about it?
While we encourage our listeners to learn as much as possible about climate change and take action, we also sometimes experience eco-anxiety ourselves.
Kristina recounts an incident where she nearly had a panic attack after coming across a stack of plastic cups that reminded her of her potential negative impact on the environment. To manage the situation, she used Katie Byron's 4-question framework.
Leekei also provides a simple suggestion for coping with the situation she learned from Jean-Marc Jancovici, a French climate expert..
You can also listen to a past episode on eco-anxiety here
For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org
Want to join in the conversation?
Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.
Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!
You can find out more on pages 154, 155 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website you can tap the footnotes link and type in 252
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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Brian Tormey, Kristina Horning and Leekei Tang
Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US.
Kristina is working on design theory and using design process in everything. With a background in architecture, civil engineering and education, she loves research, play and co-creating. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US
Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France.
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.
Transcript
Hi, I'm Ima.
Speaker:I live in Scotland.
Speaker:Hi, I'm Jen and I'm from Canada.
Speaker:Hi, I'm Ola Vanji and I'm from Nigeria.
Speaker:Hello, I'm Leaky and I live in Paris.
Speaker:Hey, I'm Rod.
Speaker:I'm from Peru.
Speaker:Welcome to Carbon Sessions.
Speaker:A podcast with carbon conversations for every day with everyone
Speaker:from everywhere in the world.
Speaker:In our conversations, we share ideas, perspectives, questions, and things we
Speaker:can actually do to make a difference.
Speaker:So don't be shy.
Speaker:Join our carbon sessions because it's not too late.
Speaker:Hi, this is leaky.
Speaker:Hi.
Speaker:This is c.
Speaker:And, hi, this is Brian.
Speaker:Excited to be here with everyone again and talking today about eco anxiety and
Speaker:this topic of sort of becoming aware of the challenges facing our planet
Speaker:and our culture and some of those, the awareness of those challenges,
Speaker:filtering in and creating a sense.
Speaker:Uh, you know, attentiveness, awareness, focus, that can
Speaker:lead to anxiety, challenge, possibly other emotions as well.
Speaker:Um, and I'll share, you know, from a, my personal side, as I've been getting more
Speaker:and more involved, which I've loved being involved with Carbon Almanac and this
Speaker:podcast, these are things, my awareness of some of these issues has expand.
Speaker:And with some of that and doing some of the specific projects I was working
Speaker:on and diving into and meeting some of these really impressive thought
Speaker:leaders who were out there making really big impacts on the world.
Speaker:Um, the, my awareness started to move into a place of creating
Speaker:a sense of anxiety as there was sort of this sense of incongruity
Speaker:of like what I knew to be right.
Speaker:And what my own actions were and what I was seeing happen around me
Speaker:with, you know, my own family and friends and colleagues and things.
Speaker:And you know, and there's this, uh, I don't know, I don't remember the
Speaker:exact quote precisely, but I know one of our past speakers, Josh spk,
Speaker:references it, um, more beautifully than I will about and quote from
Speaker:Abraham Lincoln, a former president here in the United States about one.
Speaker:Worst things you can do is act differently than, you know, to
Speaker:be, what is the right thing to do?
Speaker:Um, and I think that's this, at its core, that's where this
Speaker:place of eco anxiety comes from.
Speaker:Sort of knowing better but still acting in a certain way.
Speaker:And, you know, I'll share that for me this last, you know,
Speaker:fall, winter, early spring.
Speaker:It really was building up and coming to a head in a, in a couple ways of just
Speaker:sort of this anxiety, um, and a little bit of tunnel vision on all the different
Speaker:moving parts that were problematic.
Speaker:And, you know, if, if, if we came home from the grocery store in our groceries
Speaker:included, you know, something with plastic packaging, it, I got stressed.
Speaker:Uh, and it bothered me.
Speaker:And, um, and a whole host of other things.
Speaker:Um, and so, You know, sort of this place that like led to some, some extra
Speaker:anxiety for me in my own personal life.
Speaker:And you know, Christina, we were chatting and you had, you had a really
Speaker:interesting perspective to share on this and sort of how you approached not just
Speaker:eco anxiety but things, and that can create concerns and worry and anxiety.
Speaker:So I wanna share it over to you.
Speaker:Thanks.
Speaker:Uh, yeah, I have been thinking about this.
Speaker:One of my, uh, eco anxieties happened.
Speaker:Last, uh, fall, I went to Edinboro and the Garbagemen were on strike,
Speaker:and everywhere around there were, uh, piles from the tourist of
Speaker:coffee cups and plastic bottles.
Speaker:And I realized walking through the park, I realized, oh my
Speaker:God, this is what's showing me.
Speaker:It's showing me all my cups through my.
Speaker:I gathered and thrown out into the universe and, uh, it, uh, I was really
Speaker:sad and I started literally panicking, like, I have to stop everything I
Speaker:have to, and I just got wild up as, uh, what you were talking about.
Speaker:And I remember I went through the school of the work training, which is, it
Speaker:calls the work and it's done by Byron.
Speaker:She asked these four questions and turned around, and when I started
Speaker:panicking, I went, okay, is it true?
Speaker:Do I know a hundred percent that this is true, that these all cups
Speaker:are looking at me and that, and it calmed me down, kind of I realized,
Speaker:okay, I have to come back into the reality of it, what's going on, and.
Speaker:Go in the direction of inspiration instead of fear and sadness and panic.
Speaker:So that was really helpful.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and so this is, um, Byron Katie is this, uh, author and speaker
Speaker:who has created this concept.
Speaker:And, and you, you mentioned, and I've just been reading up on this since you
Speaker:had told me, But you mentioned that there are four questions, and so I'm gonna
Speaker:walk through the, the four different questions here for our listeners.
Speaker:The first question is, and this, these are questions you ask yourself
Speaker:about this thought you're having.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So one simple thought.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:A simple thought.
Speaker:So we'll use your examples since you've shared it here of like, is this
Speaker:the universe showing me every coffee cup I've ever disposed of, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:As I walked down the street.
Speaker:And so the questions.
Speaker:Is it true?
Speaker:That's the first question.
Speaker:Um, and then the second question, which I find interesting cuz it's like, it's like,
Speaker:it's like checking you a little bit again, is can you absolutely know that it's true?
Speaker:So it's in an, in an interesting twist on the first question, my mind.
Speaker:The third question is, how do you react?
Speaker:What happens when you believe that thought?
Speaker:So like, sort of how does that change your behavior, your reaction, your actions?
Speaker:And then the fourth is, who would you be without that thought as
Speaker:if you like deleted a thought and you weren't using it?
Speaker:And so, Christina, do you wanna sort of talk through this?
Speaker:Are you comfortable talking through this?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:We can.
Speaker:Uh, example, oh yeah.
Speaker:So is it true?
Speaker:I, uh, in that moment I felt, yep.
Speaker:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker:This is it.
Speaker:And, uh, when I repeated, well, am I absolutely sure?
Speaker:No, I'm not absolutely sure of anything.
Speaker:And, uh, so that kind of stopped me from, uh, feeling, uh, in such
Speaker:a various, this is it no other way.
Speaker:So it kind of calmed me down.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And how would you.
Speaker:It comes back to where does that impulse, I'm doing something wrong.
Speaker:When did I see something that, uh, it's, I'm not good enough?
Speaker:And all these kind of thoughts coming back in from different things.
Speaker:So it's not just about the cups is just also about inability
Speaker:to accept what's going on and.
Speaker:Get inspired by it and start thinking, okay, what can I do?
Speaker:What, uh, what are the easy steps to do?
Speaker:And when I, when I, uh, turned it around, who would you be without the thought?
Speaker:There is this pause.
Speaker:During this process, Katie Byron has a, uh, has a website where all
Speaker:this stuff you can get for free.
Speaker:In this four question, there is this beautiful pause.
Speaker:You just feel it.
Speaker:What would it feel in the body and in mind without that, that thought?
Speaker:Because, and, uh, it's so peaceful.
Speaker:It's so peaceful.
Speaker:And when it's so peaceful, there are all these, okay, I can do this, I can do that.
Speaker:Do I, for one of the things, I have been remembering that made
Speaker:me remember to put a pla a cup for coffee or juice, a pla Uh, I have
Speaker:some glass or plastic cups with a lit.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I have it in my back and, uh, whenever I get some drink outside,
Speaker:I'll ask them to put it in the cup.
Speaker:So, and I, and she also has turnaround.
Speaker:Uh, people can read up on, on her website what the turnaround, it's a process,
Speaker:but for me it was input for remembering.
Speaker:Uh, now it's five months or so after Scotland, and I still remember.
Speaker:That pile.
Speaker:And so when I go out, I still ta I remember taking the cup, wash it
Speaker:because I usually take it out, wash it, and put it back in my back.
Speaker:Oh, and I think that's important to get inspired and make these tiny steps that
Speaker:will lead towards, so that was my process.
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's, thank you for sharing.
Speaker:That's, you know, well shared and, and beautifully said.
Speaker:As I reflect on some of what you're saying, I think, you know, there are
Speaker:many thoughts that create anxiety for us that that very first question
Speaker:of these four questions, is it true?
Speaker:The answer is no.
Speaker:And you know, you know, there are self-doubt questions that I think
Speaker:many of us, the world over deal with.
Speaker:You know, if I get wrinkles, will this person stop loving me?
Speaker:And we feel that, but it's not.
Speaker:And then that second question helps validate that or sort of helps strike out.
Speaker:Can you absolutely know that it's true?
Speaker:And the answer is no.
Speaker:I can't absolutely know that's true either.
Speaker:But within our environmental challenges, there's, there is a lot of truth to the
Speaker:challenges that we're facing, right?
Speaker:And to the impacts of these decisions and actions that we
Speaker:individually and thus we as a larger.
Speaker:You know, uh, culture and set of ecosystems create.
Speaker:And so for me, in my own personal sort of approach with this, like I think I
Speaker:moved past question one and two and, you know, reading the I P C C reports and
Speaker:everything, like knowing that like, I think these things really are true and
Speaker:I absolutely can know that some of these things that I'm worried about are true.
Speaker:I moved through those first two questions and with this
Speaker:like, oh yeah, they are true.
Speaker:Um, and that's part of, for me, I think where some of this, like this anxiety
Speaker:that normally I don't worry about if I get wrinkles, my wife won't keep
Speaker:loving me, honey, if you're listening, I hope you keep loving me even if I
Speaker:get, um, but I move past that cuz I think I can sort of ask that question.
Speaker:Is that true?
Speaker:No, I think she'll love me even as a wrinkly old.
Speaker:Um, but I move into this then how do you react?
Speaker:What happens when you believe that thought?
Speaker:And this is where this, you know, sort of leads me to, and Christina,
Speaker:as you were just saying, like a need to have an impact and to sort of make,
Speaker:like do something about it, you know?
Speaker:And, you know, leaky, I wanted to turn over to you cause I think
Speaker:you had some good perspectives on, on this and how action helps you
Speaker:deal with these kind of things.
Speaker:Yeah, well, I think I'm like all viewing all of the business that we
Speaker:all, I am sometimes, um, overwhelmed by this feeling of equal anxiety.
Speaker:Um, especially when I spend time with kids.
Speaker:You know, I don't know if you notice if you have kids around you, they
Speaker:are very, very concerned about the environment and when you see kids and
Speaker:they told, they worried and then I can, you know, this feeling of anxiety.
Speaker:To a feeling of, um, guilt that's hidden worse actually.
Speaker:, , , and sometimes I feel that well it's, it's quite depressing
Speaker:because I think that, um, yeah, but there's nothing much we can think.
Speaker:But when you say, when you are or feel powers, you're not helping anything.
Speaker:So I'm trying to.
Speaker:Puzzle strategies to move beyond that.
Speaker:And one thing I found very, very useful is actually something I heard from, um,
Speaker:nda, our in France nda, our, um, well, I should not say, um, carbon, , influences
Speaker:because it's, it's not a very nice, um, way of labeling him because he is
Speaker:doing great work he's doing, uh, a lot of work advising the government um,
Speaker:on climate policies and everything.
Speaker:And, uh, he gets a lot on the radio and he gots a lot of interviews.
Speaker:And, um, one of the questions he gets asked very often is, are
Speaker:you, you know, uh, you know, all these things about climate chan
Speaker:and the possible do, uh, future.
Speaker:So are you, how are you feeling?
Speaker:Are you feeling stressed in palace?
Speaker:And I really liked his answer.
Speaker:His answer was, well, it depends on the, you surrounded yourself with
Speaker:because, uh, um, if you listen to the press, the media, it's might sound
Speaker:very doom and gloom because, um, it's, it's, it's a rule that media is to
Speaker:scare you, is to create, uh, something very stressful and very stressful.
Speaker:But then if you take action and if you surround yourself with people that,
Speaker:or taking action, then therefore, which are very positive and taking action, you
Speaker:create a kind of tunnel vision and you have this feeling that you know, oh well
Speaker:things are not as bad as it's sound in might sound because of there are people
Speaker:doing things and we're making progress.
Speaker:So I think it's, um, one of the very, very important thing, uh, when we all.
Speaker:Overwhelmed by this feeling of, anxiety and things are, and
Speaker:feeling that we're powerless.
Speaker:And, um, I think one of the things, very, very important thing is to surround
Speaker:yourself with people that are positive and take action and take action yourself.
Speaker:Because the more you surround yourself with those people, the more it will
Speaker:create, , um, you know, a positive outlook and vision of, of the problem.
Speaker:So that's why, you know, I'm doing.
Speaker:Conversations because, uh, I, yeah.
Speaker:Every week, uh, we have this recording and I know that at least once a week
Speaker:I have this conversation with people that are trying and doing things , to
Speaker:come up with some sort of action and something actionable we can do to help
Speaker:and tackle climate change and, and create, be benefits your, for our kids.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I, I, And I think not only the little actions, but also connecting to the
Speaker:government and the bigger picture.
Speaker:Uh, if people get involved with that, there are people leading these
Speaker:policies and creating all this stuff so we can, uh, also talk to them.
Speaker:Yeah, to have both.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's, it's not only taking, oh, I mean, policy is very, very
Speaker:important, but it's also, um, you're creating the conditions for change.
Speaker:And so it's, it's, it could be small thing, uh, but with big leverage, like,
Speaker:you know, , I was listening to the, um, podcast episode that went out today.
Speaker:So, Friday.
Speaker:31st of March, which is about, you know, what if we saw,
Speaker:fossil fuel altogether today.
Speaker:That was the remembrance conversation that we had.
Speaker:And one thing that Ola Benji said, and uh, that completely resonated with me
Speaker:was that if we ask questions and um, and ask the questions again and again, and
Speaker:that will help us reframe the question, and maybe we'll come up with better.
Speaker:So that's beautiful.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There's something he said and, um, so yeah, we might think, okay, we're
Speaker:just talking, but I'm sure that's, you know, we all trying to find solutions
Speaker:and uh, and uh, asking questions.
Speaker:So maybe, you know, it will inspire some, listen, this me because this
Speaker:is helping me, uh, personally, and um, maybe it would help other people.
Speaker:Deal with equal anxiety.
Speaker:Yeah, I hope so.
Speaker:So, yes, uh, join us for our conversations on Climate Change
Speaker:Engine and Carbon on Carbon Sessions.
Speaker:Uh, you can go to our website and, uh, leave a message to share your thought.
Speaker:And we love to hear from you.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:Bye bye.
Speaker:You've been listening to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with carbon
Speaker:conversations for every day with everyone from everywhere in the world.
Speaker:We'd love you to join the Carbon sessions so you too can share your
Speaker:perspectives from wherever you are.
Speaker:This is a great way for our community to learn from your ideas and
Speaker:experiences, connect and take action.
Speaker:If you want to add your voice to the conversation, go to the carbon
Speaker:almanac.org/podcast and sign up to be part of a future episode.
Speaker:This podcast is also part of the Carbon OAC network.
Speaker:For more information to sign up for the emails, to join the movement, and
Speaker:to order your copy of the Carbon Al.
Speaker:Go to the carbon almanac.org.
Speaker:Be sure to subscribe and join us here again, as together
Speaker:we can change the world.
Speaker:You've been listening to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with carbon
Speaker:conversations for every day with everyone from everywhere in the world.
Speaker:We'd love you to join the Carbon sessions so you too can share your
Speaker:perspectives from wherever you are.
Speaker:This is a great way for our community to learn from your ideas and
Speaker:experiences, connect and take action.
Speaker:If you want to add your voice to the conversation, go to the carbon
Speaker:almanac.org/podcast and sign up to be part of a future episode.
Speaker:This podcast is also part of the Carbon OAC network.
Speaker:For more information to sign up for the emails.
Speaker:To join the movement and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac,
Speaker:go to the carbon almanac.org.
Speaker:Be sure to subscribe and join us here again, as together
