Episode 174

Climate Change and the Planetary Boundaries

Episode Summary: In this episode, hosts Kristina, Jen and Leekei, delve into the concept of the Planetary Boundaries 

The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is one of the nine metrics monitored in the framework of the Planetary Boundaries as climate change is not the only process that might jeopardize human life on planet Earth. 

In this conversation, we discussed the importance of a holistic approach to the environment and considered the various aspects of natural processes as these processes are all intertwined.

This approach is crucial for understanding and addressing the broader impacts on Earth's systems and human life

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

You can find out more in the Carbon Almanac and on the website you can tap the footnotes link and type in 339

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Jenn Swanson and Kristina Horning.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

Kristina has a background in architecture and engineering. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Transcript
Speaker:

Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Hi, I'm Liki,

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA:

Hi, I'm Christina.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: Hi, I'm Jen.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: and

today I would like us to discuss the

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planetary boundaries, not climate

change, the planetary boundaries.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: And

by this, we don't mean, you know,

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the edge of the universe, right?

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Oh,

maybe the edge of the universe,

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but um, we're just looking at the

planet right now for the moment.

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The planetary boundaries, I think it's

a very, very interesting concept that we

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need to have in mind when we talk about

climate change, because As you probably

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know, Mother Nature, it works very,

very beautifully, because everything

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works in harmony on this planet.

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Like, for example, if we look at

photosynthesis, which is very, very

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basic, basically what photosynthesis does

is that it takes energy from the sun.

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It takes water and carbon dioxide,

which is absorbed by the plant.

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And, uh, and then.

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It, it produce food for us to

eat and for animals to eat.

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And so that's works very well

and it's beautiful, right?

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And there's also another example of

wonderful thing that's been working

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very, very well is the cycle of water.

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Uh, when it rains, the water goes into

the rivers and then it goes into the,

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um, underneath Ponds and reservoir

and then it is used to grow plants.

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So it's been working very, very

well for years and this is beautiful

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because it's has created a kind of, um,

predictability in how nature would behave.

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And so.

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People living on this planet knows what to

expect and how to build life around this.

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And this is how we have been prospering

as a species, as humans, as humanity.

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Isn't it great?

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: It is.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: It's magic.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI:

It's, it's, it's marvelous.

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It's because when I'm thinking about

this and I think, wow, this is marvelous.

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Like I really mean it.

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It's, it's marble.

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You know, how come it works

so beautifully, right?

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: When I used

to teach medical terminology and anatomy

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and physiology in in a previous role

in life, there was a word that I loved.

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And the word was homeostasis, which,

you know, the body is brilliant at doing

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at bringing itself into harmony and

balance, which is what that word means.

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And You know, I used to look at the

functioning of the kidney and get kind of

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choked up, you know, I think my students

thought I was, what's wrong with her.

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But it was, it's just so beautiful

how it works when we don't interfere.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah.

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When we don't interfere.

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Yeah.

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And this is precisely that what is

happening on planet earth because things

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are changing and we saw, I think problems.

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Yeah.

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It's a very weak word for that,

um, disturbances or issues,

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big issues like climate change,

but it's not the only problem.

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It's not the only issue.

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, the only thing that is

not working very well.

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And, um, . In 2009, there was

a group of leading scientists,

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environmental scientists and

academics that worked together.

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And to build a model, a framework

that identify the different parts

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of, of, um, big processes of nature

and how they work together, and

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also identify the boundaries.

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Process should not.

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cross.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: So I

feel like it's, uh, it's like with

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people when, uh, they don't have set

boundaries, then, uh, they fall apart.

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And so I guess the scientists are

trying to find what are those set

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boundaries before everything falls apart.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yes.

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Yes.

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I don't I couldn't find it exactly.

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But I think I've read somewhere

that you know, if more than like, I

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mean, I might be completely wrong,

but it's I couldn't find them.

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the article again when I

was preparing for this call.

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But I've read some time ago

that there are nine, processes.

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And if six of them , cross the

boundaries, it's irreversible.

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And that's horrible.

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That's horrible to read that, but I

can't find the article, so I'm probably

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wrong and I shouldn't say that,

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: So, the

nine processes are the climate change,

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biodiversity loss and species extinctions,

stratospheric ozone depletion, ocean

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acidification, biogeochemical flows.

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of phosphorus and nitrogen, deforestation,

decreasing availability of fresh

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air, introduction of novel entities

like synthetic organics, and the last

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one is atmospheric aerosol loading.

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Those are the nine.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI:

maybe, for climate change, , it is

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important to explain why this is,

this process is very important.

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And I think that for climate change

is that because the world, the whole,

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the way we live, we work, we build.

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It's built around the sun, you

know, climate pattern and has

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been going on for years and years.

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And so if the climate changes, that means

that the world needs to be rebuilt, right?

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And actually, we're seeing it right

now because they are now they're

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cities places that people , can

not live, they, and they have to

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move or that needs to be rebuilt.

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And so climate change is

a very important issue.

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I mean, we.

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Um, we know that because we talk

about this a lot, but, I think

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it's, it's important to explain why,

you know, it's not just because,

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oh, it's too hot or it's too cold.

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It's really because the weather is

not as predictable as it used to be.

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And the world, the society history,

humanity has been built around

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a certain pattern of weather.

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And now that has changed, we need

to rethink of how humanity needs to.

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Be organized.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: Yeah,

and also I think the big, one of the

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biggest issue is not only the flooding

of coastal areas, but I think one of the

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biggest issue is refugees of the climate

change and understanding that it's gonna

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impact everybody because these people

have to go somewhere, eat something.

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So Those little, little kind of signs

of climate change that it is going to

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happen, I think we should pay attention

to and not wait until it's happening.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Oh,

no, no, it is already happening.

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There are people that cannot live

in on where they were born anymore.

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So this is already happening.

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And it's, I think this is just

one aspect of climate change.

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But, uh, what I'm trying to, , to

express is that also, you know, the

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way we grow food needs to be rethought.

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So it's whole society that

needs to be reorganized.

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The threshold that this group of

scientists have used to measure the

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boundary of climate change is the

CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: Yeah.

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So, so with these, and we've

crossed six of the nine, we think.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yes, we have.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: Yes.

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Um, so, so a question, is there

going, is there a going back?

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: well,

um, I was going to say, I don't

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know, but I think they, I hope that

there is a going back because from my

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early understanding of the planetary

boundaries, , because those different

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processes are linked, if that too many,

too many processes that have crossed the

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threshold, it's impossible to go back.

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Yeah.

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At some stage, if we cross

all these boundaries, it will

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reach the point of no return.

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But, um, hopefully we

have not reached that yet.

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So there's climate change, but

there's also ocean acidification,

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: Yeah,

it's uh, it's that ocean absorbs CO2.

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So it won't be able to absorb it anymore.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: You know,

when the pH in the ocean is too acidic,

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life cannot happen in the ocean anymore.

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So this is something that, uh,

that scientists are monitoring.

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Luckily, and I don't know if you

remember, the ozone depletion.

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Yes.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: talking,

Leaky, about the hole in the ozone that

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happened quite a number of years ago

and everyone panicked and they banned?

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aerosol sprays and that the, uh,

the, uh, project chemical in spray

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cans, they changed the technology

and the good news was that that

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stopped or closed over again.

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Um, and that was.

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Like, the thing is, it's sort of like

the COVID vaccine, you know, if everyone

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pulled together in a, in a hurry, you

could make stuff, something happen.

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If it was urgent enough and, and people

realized that it affected every single

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person on the planet, then we're smart.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah.

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That's

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Planetary Boundaries JENN:

We can figure this out.

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We can figure this out.

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We just need to,

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah.

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I remember when I was a, I was a

teenager at that time and I was looking

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at the news and I thought, oh, wow.

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That means that when I'll be

an adult, I will die because

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of, the hole in the ozone layer.

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But then, we didn't die because, uh,

we, as in the world, has identified

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the problem and, the world has

worked together to solve the issue.

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So that's, uh, that's something that

has been measured, uh, monitored,

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sorry, , in the planetary boundaries.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: yeah.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: You know,

but I think with this, hopefully we

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learned from those guys who, uh, realize

what the aerosols are doing because it, I

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think they came up with it in seventies.

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And they were shunned and ridiculed and

finally, after so many years, people

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went, Oh, yeah, this is happening.

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So hopefully we'll learn and start

doing something before total disaster.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: That's not

unusual, you know, um, we have, I,

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I consider him, you know, a modern

day prophet David Suzuki, um, you

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know, he's, he spent his entire life

saying, we got to do something people.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: And he's

been, you know, he's had people.

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You see rotten things about

him and all the rest of it, but

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everything he said is coming to be.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: And it

was a really hard road and he's now,

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you know, quite, quite on in years.

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His daughter has taken up some of it,

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Oh, really?

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: activism.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI:

What's her name?

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Planetary Boundaries JENN:

Oh, I'm trying to remember.

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I'd have to look it up, but she's, um,

she's spoken on stages and she's taken up

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some of his, um, and, and so it's, it's

quite fascinating that, you know, at first

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it seems like, A fringe, a fringe thing.

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And then it's like, Oh, you know,

maybe we should have listened to that.

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Because here we are, you know, what

was happening in California this

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past week with all of the flooding

and the water and all my word,

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like, like stuff is happening.

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Halifax.

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I was in our country.

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We, we had, um, and

Halifax, they had something.

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Like 150 centimeters of snow in a short

amount of time, which is taller than,

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you know, a small child, they have, uh,

had to have people come and dig out, uh,

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so they could even open their doors, um,

On Cape Breton Island and some, some of

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the places, and there's been a lot of

people stuck with no food, no medicine

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because they can't physically get to

them, uh, because of this wild snowstorm

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that is one for the record books.

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So it's, it's happening, but it's

just, can we put it all together

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and is it a wake up call or not?

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Right.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA:

Yeah, see the whole picture.

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Yeah, they were all

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Another wake

up call would be the loss of biodiversity.

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That is a very, very big one, because, uh,

it took me some time to understand, to try

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to gather why lots of biodiversity is very

important, because I'm a city girl, but

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if we think of the concept of food chain,

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: Yes.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI:

it's very, very clear.

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Every animal is a predator

of another animal and, and is

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also a prey for another animal.

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And so if the food chain is broken,

uh, which is caused by loss of

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biodiversity, that means that there

will be probably some animal species

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will be competing for food and, uh,

and that will create a lot of problems.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: Yep.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA:

Yeah, they already are, yeah.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah.

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And so in the concept of planetary

boundaries, there's a way to measure

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that, is that actually I should say that

this is probably the only number I can

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understand, which is the annual rate of

loss of biological diversity is below

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10 extinctions per million species.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN:

So what do we do?

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah.

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It's, it sounds very, very

doom and gloom, doesn't it?

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I think my point of raising

this topic is not to bring the

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doom and gloom on the Friday.

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Morning or evening . But, um, my point

was more to, , raise the awareness that

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we should not just be looking at climate

change as just one single issue and just

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focus on carbon reduction because it's,

um, this is silo approach to nature,

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to the environment with nature works.

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with different processes,

and they're all interlinked.

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So, I guess this is my, my point, the

idea that I want to, I want to share

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with you is that if we just focus on

climate change and how to, you know,

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to do the energy transition or how to

capture carbon, we're not looking at

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the, at the whole picture, first of all.

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And then second of all, is that if we

just focus on that, it will be very,

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very easy for us to be greenwashed.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: True.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah,

you cannot just look at one problem.

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Especially when they're

all interconnected.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: Right.

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And so I think if each person listening.

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You know, it can feel overwhelming

this, this, um, climate anxiety

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they call, they've labeled now.

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It can feel overwhelming,

but we can still do stuff.

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And it doesn't matter who you are,

where you live, what your situation is.

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There are things that can be done and

they can be things in your own house.

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We're not talking just recycling, but you

know, letter writing and learning more

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about it and following the carbon almanac.

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And talking to people.

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And I think the more that we do that,

the more aware people will become.

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And like I said, we're all really

smart creatures and we got ourselves

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into this mess and I think we can,

I think we can get ourselves out.

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Maybe I'm, uh, hoping.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: And I also

want to add that the concept of planetary

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boundaries is one concept that has been

developed by scientists that are very,

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very good and skilled researchers,

but it's, it's still for debate.

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And so don't be, don't be depressed.

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And maybe Christina, you know, uh,

you mentioned earlier something that

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is, um, quite uplifting, I would say.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: Yeah,

I, I have been thinking about, with

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all these changes and everything, about

Aborigine, people that all over the

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world, they not only got the observational

ability of science and instruments,

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but they learned through learning

from their elders and from stories.

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And almost they have this knowledge

we should listen to, and they have

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been warning us for a very long time.

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And, uh, a lot of their ways they

deal with, uh, Earth, they deal

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with the weather, they navigate

in the oceans, have been shown.

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In the science lately and the,

uh, theoretical physics, they're

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seeing, oh, there's something to it.

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So hopefully we can also listen to them.

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And Bring that into the awareness

of all of us, not just, uh, the

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research, but add that to it.

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And maybe start groups and

getting together people.

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It's, the power is in numbers, so.

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That was my hope.

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I think we're good.

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We'll, we'll, we'll figure it out.

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There's such a small number

compared to the whole world.

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There's such a small number of people

who deny all these things and who

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want to hide from it and don't care.

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I think the maturity is so

Overwhelmingly giving, giving

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and connecting with everybody and

positive and understanding that

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: and

actually if you want to find more details

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about the planetary boundaries, you

don't need to buy the Carbon Almanac.

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What you can do is to go to

the carbon almanac.org and

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you can check the footnotes.

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So the entry, I'm going to give you

the entry for the planetary boundaries.

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So you go to the carbon

almanac.org, you go to footnotes,

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and then you type in 3, 3, 9.

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Type in 339 to get to the

planetary boundaries information.

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You have all the articles that

have been used to write the

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article on the common almanac.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN:

But, but buy the book,

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI: Yeah, well,

you can buy the book too, but if you don't

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Planetary Boundaries JENN:

buy five and give them away.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI:

yeah, you can buy it.

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But if you don't want to buy it,

you can still can find, find out

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by going to the common almanac.

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org.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: Now

on the site for people, sometimes

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it's difficult to find the footnotes.

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So you have to scroll all the way

down, all the way at the bottom.

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In small letters, there is

a line of things and between

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them, there is footnotes.

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So.

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That's how you find footnotes.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: And another

thing you can do that would really help

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is to review this podcast and to share

it because that costs you absolutely

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nothing but about five minutes of time

is to give us a review and to share this

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with a friend and that would really,

really help further our conversation.

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Planetary Boundaries LEEKEI:

Thank you very much.

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Planetary Boundaries JENN: Thanks.

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Planetary Boundaries KRISTINA: Bye!

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