Episode 175

[FOCUS] Climate Conversations, Connection And Behaviour Change

Episode Summary:  This segment is from a longer episode in which Brian, Leekei and Jenn all shared recent conversations on climate that made them regain hope  

The conversation underlines the value of unified, non-confrontational discussions to inspire collective and positive change towards a more sustainable future.

The dialogue highlights the significance of recognizing and modifying everyday behaviours that harm the planet, promoting alternative, eco-friendly practices. 

It suggests that individual actions, informed by awareness and understanding, can lead to significant environmental improvements. 

To listen to the full episode go here.

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Brian D Tormey, Jenn Swanson and Leekei Tang

Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US.

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves.  

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Transcript
Brian:

Correct.

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Well, and that's part of, you know,

it's interesting, part of, uh, you know,

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this Josh's methodology in whom he's

seeking out to have conversations with

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is around, Not just anyone, but actually

people who themselves could have a

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cascading effect, a rippling effect of

their own influence or decision making.

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You know, and he sort of recognizes that.

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He and his time can't scale infinitely.

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He can't go spend time and have a

conversation, follow the SP method

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with every single person in the world.

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That's not feasible.

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But he can go be mindful, uh, in both

who he speaks with and, and tries this

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method out with for their decision making

or influence power or with people who

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can like go learn the method themselves.

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and then go be, uh, sort of their own

amplifying version of this by going and

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following some of this methodology to

have to take what can often be these

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like, very confrontational conversations.

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Uh, you know, I grew up in a timber and

ranching community where, um, people

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really love and take care and I would

consider them, I would say that they're

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often like some of the best stewards

of the, of the environment around them.

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but there's sometimes still like

decisions that they're making that

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are not good for the environment in

ways that they can't necessarily,

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it's not immediately perceivable.

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And I, I, I look forward to having follow

this sort of method with some of those

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people in my, in my life that we see.

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Differently on what we should do with our

day and time and energy, but we, I think,

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down deep believe in the same kind of

concept of this level of like stewardship

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and leaving things better than we founded

and, and what that means, I think down

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deep, that's a uniform perspective.

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JENN: beautiful.

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I'm interested to hear what this whole

method is and how, how to find out

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Brian: More, more to come.

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We're we're actually, we were, Josh and I

were discussing, we, you know, through the

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creation of the Carbon Almanac Network,

this very big, wonderful global network,

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we were sort of discussing the idea of,

okay, maybe we go like maybe there's some

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people in this network who wanna say, yep.

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let me go try, let me try this methodology

out a little bit and start to sample it

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in other cultures and in other locations

and through different people to start

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seeing like, how well does it scale as

you, as you pass the baton of method

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from one person to the next, to the next.

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Leekei: Yeah, I think it's very

interesting because personally I've

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always been very reluctant to talk

to people or try to start a , climate

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conversation with people that are not

sharing the same perspective and, and.

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I'm not helping so much.

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I mean, I'm, I'm choosing the easy

path, so I also want to learn how

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to do it and try to talk to people

that don't share my worldview

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because we'll talk about worldviews.

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Brian: Mm-hmm.

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. Yeah.

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Well, it's cause it's.

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You don't wanna have a

confrontational conversation.

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It's not because that doesn't lead to

the, your goal is behavior change, right?

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Your goal is likely perspective and

behavior change that will have an impact

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in the choices they make and the influence

they have in the world, and the impact

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on the environment and their footprint.

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But having a headbutting contest with

someone probably just has them dig their

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heels in and lean into the headbut.

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In many cases as opposed to helping

them come to a new perspective.

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JENN: So it's about, it's

about unifying, right?

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I think, I think our world right

now is just in so much pain and so

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much, um, there's so much despair and

grief that the more of these kinds of

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unifying conversations and invitations

we can have the better, uh, less

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confrontation and more connection

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I'm seeing, I'm feeling it everywhere

and seeing it everywhere and all

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the work, all the work that I do and

the conversations that I have that

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people are just tired of arguing.

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Brian: tired of the

divisiveness of so many topics.

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You know, it used to be there was like

one or two things you didn't talk about.

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and now there's just so many that

are third rails, you know, and,

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and they, it shouldn't be that way.

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Sh we, we should be able to have

informed, collaborative, you know,

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mediated kind of conversations that, that

bring a conversation together towards a

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conclusion with, especially with how much

information and data is at our fingertips.

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I mean, it's really just at our fingertip.

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That wasn't always the

case, but it should.

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That extra information, I think should

help us come to better conclusions,

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not more divergent conclusions.

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JENN: do you think do you think people

get tired of the, how much choice

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there is at our fingertips and just

sort of pick a lane and stay in it?

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Brian: There.

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There's a whole field of

science around decision fatigue.

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Um, this is, I was chatting with

someone recently about a, a different

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book, um, called Mindless Eating.

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And in it the, um, the, the author sort

of uses this phrase, these moments of

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conscious make decisions and moments

of consciousness, so that in all these

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other moments of not consciousness,

you don't have to think about.

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The decision because we only have

so many decisions we can make a day.

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Um, and I, and he, his advocacy in,

in this book, um, was, you know,

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principally focused in part on

like health and food consumption.

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Like make a smart decision, like

when you're at the grocery store,

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buy the things then in your pantry.

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Are going to be good, you know?

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Then you just go and you open up

the refrigerator, you open up the

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pantry, and you eat healthy foods.

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Because in that one moment at the

grocery store, you didn't buy anything

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that you shouldn't be looking at

inside your refrigerator or pantry.

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JENN: conscious decision making.

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I like it.

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Brian: Yeah.

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JENN: And that would relate, that would

relate to the environment as well, right?

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What, what decisions can we make

consciously about how we walk

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through the world that have impact?

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Brian: Yeah.

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Well, and they can be

decisions that you, you know,

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they can be decisions that you

sort of make one time and then

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you just hold to your decision.

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So I used to make a New

Year's resolution for myself.

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Every year I would make a couple

and like a number of years ago,

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I always used to put sugar in my

coffee, you know, as many people do.

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And I don't know, maybe 12, 13 years

ago, I just, one of my resolutions was.

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I will never put sugar in my coffee again.

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And that was just my thing.

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And, but every time I make myself

a cup of coffee, I still have to go

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through that decision matrix a little

bit like the sugar's sitting there.

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If I'm at any place out there in the

world, um, the sugar's sitting there,

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it's not sitting there in my house.

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Oh, and this is how we can do it.

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So if I'm at a, at a coffee shop or at a

restaurant or anything, the sugar's there

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and I have to decide not to put it in.

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But at my house, and this actually

goes back to this concept of

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like a moment of consciousness.

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I don't have a sugar bowl anywhere

near, like I've got sugar for some

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baking things like back in the pantry,

but there's no sugar out anywhere

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near where we make coffee and tea.

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And so sometimes guests are

like, well, where's the sugar?

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And I was like, I don't have one.

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I'll bring out the five pound thing and

be like, wait, here's the baking sugar.

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If you want some, but like there's

none anywhere near the sh the tea and

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coffee making and that decision to

not have a sugar bowl and not have it

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ready means I don't have to think about

it so much when I make my morning cup

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of coffee or tea or my evening tea.

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I don't have to think about it.

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It's not there for me.

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And that's that like

decision in one moment.

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And I, and I, Jen, I

think you're so right.

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There's all these kind of decisions

that we can make in like big moments

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of consciousness, decision making.

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But then we just don't have

to think about anymore.

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Right.

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Um, if you, we, there was this great,

um, piece in the Carbon Almanac, uh, one

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of the podcasts about gas leaf blowers

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Leekei: Mm.

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Brian: electric ones.

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Do you remember that

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JENN: remember?

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Yes, I do.

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Brian: that one.

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Yeah.

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JENN: I was part of that

conversation and it was hilarious.

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Brian: it was pretty funny and, and

I listened to it and, and really

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learned and thought, and I, I.

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A gas, you know, I had a gas one

and an electric one, both sitting

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and, you know, available for use.

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And I sort of used the gas for

the bigger heftier stuff and

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the, the electric for the other.

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And our houses fully powered

by solar were, were a negative

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impact on the grid annually.

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And, and so like the electricity

is, Functionally, I've already

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invested in the panels and it's

free, but I still use the gas one

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sometimes for just convenience, right?

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Even though I have to pay for the

gasoline, and put in the oil, you know?

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But then when I heard that podcast, I

was like, wait, let me just decommission,

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like let me just stop using this.

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And so I actually like cleaned

up my gas powered one and

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put it away pretty formally.

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And now I still am not sure whether,

whether the right decision is to What

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to do with it, but I just took it out

of my garage and put it in my basement,

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cleaned it, empty it, put it away.

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So now I just always grabbed

the electric one and maybe it

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takes me a little bit more time.

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I have to use you a little bit more raking

to help it with its, you know, power.

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But it's that I made that I,

your podcast was the thing that

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made me go put the gas one.

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Leekei: Oh, that's wonderful.

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See

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Jet

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Brian: And now I don't,

I don't see it there.

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And you know, it's in my basement.

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It's not in my garage, so I

don't, when I go to the garage,

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I only grab the electric one.

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As a result of your podcast,

I've put the other one away.

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Leekei: Oh

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JENN: Thank

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Brian: I'm trying to get our

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JENN: that.

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Brian: Yeah, of course.

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Leekei: I think very often we do

things because, um, you know, out

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of habits or out of convenience.

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And, and once we realize that this habit

or this thing that is convenient is

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hurting, uh, this behavior is hurting

the, the environment, the planet, we.

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we change it.

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And so I think the, the goal of this

podcast is, and the carbon arm and

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everything, the work we're doing is

not to, you know, to invent the new

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solution, but is to make people realize

that some things that they been doing or

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are thinking of doing are not so good.

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, but the, it's not like finger pointing

and, and shaming people, but it just,

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you know, helping them realize that,

oh, ooh, maybe there's an alternative.

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, yeah.

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Of doing things.

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Yeah.

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JENN: I love the idea of, of habit.

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Um, there's a book that I, I've read

a few times that I love, uh, called

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Mini Mini Habits and um, this person

talks about like a micro habit.

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Leekei: mm

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JENN: and so, you know, if you're

going to do a pushup, do one, and

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that's your minimum for the day.

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Well, by the time you get down to do

one, you're of course not gonna do just

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one or put your runners on and go to

the end of your driveway or down into

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your lobby depending on where you live.

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And.

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and by the time you get down there,

you're probably gonna keep going,

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but if you don't, you've still

satisfied your goal, which was to

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put your shoes on and go outside.

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Um, so micro habits, uh, you know, floss

one tooth, and all you have to do one

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day, is floss, one tooth, You know?

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So it's like what are the,

the micro habits that we.

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Start with if, if doing something

big is too much, um, what are

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the micro things we can do?

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And then at least we've

accomplished that one thing.

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And then, and then you build on that.

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Right.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Is that, does that sound like that

was the book from Steven Geis.

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JENN: Yeah.

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I think it

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Brian: I see.

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It's on audiobook.

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I'm gonna go listen to that.

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I like

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JENN: Like that

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idea.

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Yeah.

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And I, I love that book because I've done

a number of things that were suggested

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in that book and it actually works.

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like putting your workout clothes on.

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First thing is deader robe or whatever,

, and it's like, well, I did all this work

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to get dressed into my workout clothes.

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I might as well work out

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Brian: I

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Leekei: Yeah.

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Brian: as well go do it.

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What is it's, there's an inertia that

shows up, and I think this comes back

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to that question of decision making.

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Decision making is like a moment

where you have to choose a

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path left or right, up or down.

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And when you just sort of set yourself,

so there's already inertia going

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one direction for the other versus

the other, it's more likely that you

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will move with the, you'll go with

the inertia that you said in motion.

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JENN: Yeah.

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So what can we, what decisions can we

make for, uh, that are good for the.

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Brian: Yeah.

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JENN: Yeah.

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Brian: there's so many

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Leekei: Yeah.

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,

Brian: turn into a long, there's, I'm, I'm pausing.

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I'm like, I don't know how to

answer that succinctly at all.

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JENN: Well,

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that could have been a

rhetorical question too.

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Brian: yeah,

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Leekei: yeah.

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LYNN: You've been listening to Karbon

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When it comes to the climate, we don’t need more marketing or anxiety. We need established facts and a plan for collective action.

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This isn’t what the oil companies, marketers, activists, or politicians want you to believe. This is what’s really happening, right now. Our planet is in trouble, and no one concerned group, corporation, country, or hemisphere can address this on its own. Self-interest only increases the problem. We are in this together. And it’s not too late to for concerted, collective action for change.