[FOCUS] Climate Conversations, Connection And Behaviour Change

Brian: 00:00:00

Correct.

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Well, and that's part of, you know,

it's interesting, part of, uh, you know,

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this Josh's methodology in whom he's

seeking out to have conversations with

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is around, Not just anyone, but actually

people who themselves could have a

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cascading effect, a rippling effect of

their own influence or decision making.

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You know, and he sort of recognizes that.

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He and his time can't scale infinitely.

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He can't go spend time and have a

conversation, follow the SP method

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with every single person in the world.

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That's not feasible.

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But he can go be mindful, uh, in both

who he speaks with and, and tries this

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method out with for their decision making

or influence power or with people who

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can like go learn the method themselves.

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and then go be, uh, sort of their own

amplifying version of this by going and

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following some of this methodology to

have to take what can often be these

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like, very confrontational conversations.

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Uh, you know, I grew up in a timber and

ranching community where, um, people

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really love and take care and I would

consider them, I would say that they're

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often like some of the best stewards

of the, of the environment around them.

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but there's sometimes still like

decisions that they're making that

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are not good for the environment in

ways that they can't necessarily,

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it's not immediately perceivable.

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And I, I, I look forward to having follow

this sort of method with some of those

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people in my, in my life that we see.

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Differently on what we should do with our

day and time and energy, but we, I think,

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down deep believe in the same kind of

concept of this level of like stewardship

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and leaving things better than we founded

and, and what that means, I think down

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deep, that's a uniform perspective.

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JENN: beautiful.

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I'm interested to hear what this whole

method is and how, how to find out

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Brian: More, more to come.

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We're we're actually, we were, Josh and I

were discussing, we, you know, through the

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creation of the Carbon Almanac Network,

this very big, wonderful global network,

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we were sort of discussing the idea of,

okay, maybe we go like maybe there's some

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people in this network who wanna say, yep.

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let me go try, let me try this methodology

out a little bit and start to sample it

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in other cultures and in other locations

and through different people to start

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seeing like, how well does it scale as

you, as you pass the baton of method

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from one person to the next, to the next.

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Leekei: Yeah, I think it's very

interesting because personally I've

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always been very reluctant to talk

to people or try to start a , climate

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conversation with people that are not

sharing the same perspective and, and.

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I'm not helping so much.

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I mean, I'm, I'm choosing the easy

path, so I also want to learn how

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to do it and try to talk to people

that don't share my worldview

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because we'll talk about worldviews.

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Brian: Mm-hmm.

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. Yeah.

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Well, it's cause it's.

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You don't wanna have a

confrontational conversation.

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It's not because that doesn't lead to

the, your goal is behavior change, right?

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Your goal is likely perspective and

behavior change that will have an impact

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in the choices they make and the influence

they have in the world, and the impact

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on the environment and their footprint.

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But having a headbutting contest with

someone probably just has them dig their

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heels in and lean into the headbut.

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In many cases as opposed to helping

them come to a new perspective.

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JENN: So it's about, it's

about unifying, right?

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I think, I think our world right

now is just in so much pain and so

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much, um, there's so much despair and

grief that the more of these kinds of

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unifying conversations and invitations

we can have the better, uh, less

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confrontation and more connection

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I'm seeing, I'm feeling it everywhere

and seeing it everywhere and all

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the work, all the work that I do and

the conversations that I have that

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people are just tired of arguing.

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Brian: tired of the

divisiveness of so many topics.

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You know, it used to be there was like

one or two things you didn't talk about.

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and now there's just so many that

are third rails, you know, and,

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and they, it shouldn't be that way.

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Sh we, we should be able to have

informed, collaborative, you know,

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mediated kind of conversations that, that

bring a conversation together towards a

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conclusion with, especially with how much

information and data is at our fingertips.

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I mean, it's really just at our fingertip.

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That wasn't always the

case, but it should.

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That extra information, I think should

help us come to better conclusions,

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not more divergent conclusions.

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JENN: do you think do you think people

get tired of the, how much choice

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there is at our fingertips and just

sort of pick a lane and stay in it?

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Brian: There.

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There's a whole field of

science around decision fatigue.

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Um, this is, I was chatting with

someone recently about a, a different

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book, um, called Mindless Eating.

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And in it the, um, the, the author sort

of uses this phrase, these moments of

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conscious make decisions and moments

of consciousness, so that in all these

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other moments of not consciousness,

you don't have to think about.

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The decision because we only have

so many decisions we can make a day.

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Um, and I, and he, his advocacy in,

in this book, um, was, you know,

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principally focused in part on

like health and food consumption.

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Like make a smart decision, like

when you're at the grocery store,

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buy the things then in your pantry.

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Are going to be good, you know?

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Then you just go and you open up

the refrigerator, you open up the

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pantry, and you eat healthy foods.

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Because in that one moment at the

grocery store, you didn't buy anything

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that you shouldn't be looking at

inside your refrigerator or pantry.

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JENN: conscious decision making.

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I like it.

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Brian: Yeah.

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JENN: And that would relate, that would

relate to the environment as well, right?

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What, what decisions can we make

consciously about how we walk

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through the world that have impact?

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Brian: Yeah.

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Well, and they can be

decisions that you, you know,

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they can be decisions that you

sort of make one time and then

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you just hold to your decision.

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So I used to make a New

Year's resolution for myself.

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Every year I would make a couple

and like a number of years ago,

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I always used to put sugar in my

coffee, you know, as many people do.

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And I don't know, maybe 12, 13 years

ago, I just, one of my resolutions was.

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I will never put sugar in my coffee again.

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And that was just my thing.

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And, but every time I make myself

a cup of coffee, I still have to go

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through that decision matrix a little

bit like the sugar's sitting there.

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If I'm at any place out there in the

world, um, the sugar's sitting there,

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it's not sitting there in my house.

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Oh, and this is how we can do it.

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So if I'm at a, at a coffee shop or at a

restaurant or anything, the sugar's there

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and I have to decide not to put it in.

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But at my house, and this actually

goes back to this concept of

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like a moment of consciousness.

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I don't have a sugar bowl anywhere

near, like I've got sugar for some

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baking things like back in the pantry,

but there's no sugar out anywhere

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near where we make coffee and tea.

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And so sometimes guests are

like, well, where's the sugar?

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And I was like, I don't have one.

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I'll bring out the five pound thing and

be like, wait, here's the baking sugar.

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If you want some, but like there's

none anywhere near the sh the tea and

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coffee making and that decision to

not have a sugar bowl and not have it

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ready means I don't have to think about

it so much when I make my morning cup

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of coffee or tea or my evening tea.

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I don't have to think about it.

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It's not there for me.

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And that's that like

decision in one moment.

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And I, and I, Jen, I

think you're so right.

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There's all these kind of decisions

that we can make in like big moments

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of consciousness, decision making.

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But then we just don't have

to think about anymore.

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Right.

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Um, if you, we, there was this great,

um, piece in the Carbon Almanac, uh, one

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of the podcasts about gas leaf blowers

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Leekei: Mm.

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Brian: electric ones.

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Do you remember that

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JENN: remember?

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Yes, I do.

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Brian: that one.

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Yeah.

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JENN: I was part of that

conversation and it was hilarious.

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Brian: it was pretty funny and, and

I listened to it and, and really

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learned and thought, and I, I.

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A gas, you know, I had a gas one

and an electric one, both sitting

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and, you know, available for use.

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And I sort of used the gas for

the bigger heftier stuff and

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the, the electric for the other.

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And our houses fully powered

by solar were, were a negative

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impact on the grid annually.

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And, and so like the electricity

is, Functionally, I've already

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invested in the panels and it's

free, but I still use the gas one

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sometimes for just convenience, right?

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Even though I have to pay for the

gasoline, and put in the oil, you know?

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But then when I heard that podcast, I

was like, wait, let me just decommission,

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like let me just stop using this.

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And so I actually like cleaned

up my gas powered one and

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put it away pretty formally.

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And now I still am not sure whether,

whether the right decision is to What

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to do with it, but I just took it out

of my garage and put it in my basement,

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cleaned it, empty it, put it away.

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So now I just always grabbed

the electric one and maybe it

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takes me a little bit more time.

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I have to use you a little bit more raking

to help it with its, you know, power.

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But it's that I made that I,

your podcast was the thing that

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made me go put the gas one.

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Leekei: Oh, that's wonderful.

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See

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Jet

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Brian: And now I don't,

I don't see it there.

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And you know, it's in my basement.

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It's not in my garage, so I

don't, when I go to the garage,

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I only grab the electric one.

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As a result of your podcast,

I've put the other one away.

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Leekei: Oh

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JENN: Thank

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Brian: I'm trying to get our

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JENN: that.

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Brian: Yeah, of course.

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Leekei: I think very often we do

things because, um, you know, out

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of habits or out of convenience.

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And, and once we realize that this habit

or this thing that is convenient is

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hurting, uh, this behavior is hurting

the, the environment, the planet, we.

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we change it.

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And so I think the, the goal of this

podcast is, and the carbon arm and

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everything, the work we're doing is

not to, you know, to invent the new

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solution, but is to make people realize

that some things that they been doing or

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are thinking of doing are not so good.

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, but the, it's not like finger pointing

and, and shaming people, but it just,

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you know, helping them realize that,

oh, ooh, maybe there's an alternative.

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, yeah.

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Of doing things.

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Yeah.

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JENN: I love the idea of, of habit.

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Um, there's a book that I, I've read

a few times that I love, uh, called

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Mini Mini Habits and um, this person

talks about like a micro habit.

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.

Leekei: mm

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JENN: and so, you know, if you're

going to do a pushup, do one, and

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that's your minimum for the day.

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Well, by the time you get down to do

one, you're of course not gonna do just

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one or put your runners on and go to

the end of your driveway or down into

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your lobby depending on where you live.

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And.

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and by the time you get down there,

you're probably gonna keep going,

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but if you don't, you've still

satisfied your goal, which was to

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put your shoes on and go outside.

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Um, so micro habits, uh, you know, floss

one tooth, and all you have to do one

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day, is floss, one tooth, You know?

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So it's like what are the,

the micro habits that we.

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Start with if, if doing something

big is too much, um, what are

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the micro things we can do?

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And then at least we've

accomplished that one thing.

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And then, and then you build on that.

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Right.

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Brian: Yeah.

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Is that, does that sound like that

was the book from Steven Geis.

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JENN: Yeah.

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I think it

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Brian: I see.

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It's on audiobook.

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I'm gonna go listen to that.

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I like

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JENN: Like that

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idea.

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Yeah.

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And I, I love that book because I've done

a number of things that were suggested

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in that book and it actually works.

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like putting your workout clothes on.

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First thing is deader robe or whatever,

, and it's like, well, I did all this work

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to get dressed into my workout clothes.

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I might as well work out

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Brian: I

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Leekei: Yeah.

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Brian: as well go do it.

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What is it's, there's an inertia that

shows up, and I think this comes back

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to that question of decision making.

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Decision making is like a moment

where you have to choose a

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path left or right, up or down.

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And when you just sort of set yourself,

so there's already inertia going

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one direction for the other versus

the other, it's more likely that you

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will move with the, you'll go with

the inertia that you said in motion.

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JENN: Yeah.

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So what can we, what decisions can we

make for, uh, that are good for the.

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Brian: Yeah.

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JENN: Yeah.

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Brian: there's so many

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Leekei: Yeah.

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,

Brian: turn into a long, there's, I'm, I'm pausing.

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I'm like, I don't know how to

answer that succinctly at all.

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JENN: Well,

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that could have been a

rhetorical question too.

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Brian: yeah,

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Leekei: yeah.

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LYNN: You've been listening to Karbon

sessions, a podcast with carbon

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: 00:13:19

conversations for every day, with

everyone from everywhere in the world.

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We'd love you to join the carbon

sessions so YouTube can share your

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perspectives from wherever you are.

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This is a great way for our community

to learn from your ideas and

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experiences, connect and take action.

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If you want to add your voice to

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Dot org slash podcast and sign up

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As together we can change the world.