Climate Deniers and Climate Doomists and Gloomists

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Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

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A podcast with Carbon Conversations

for every day with everyone

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from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Hi, I'm Leakey.

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Hi, I'm Jen.

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The subtitle of the Carbon Almanac is,

It's not too late it's not too late.

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and this is very, very important

because this week I read something

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that completely blew, my mind.

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The idea is that being doom and

gloom about the climate is as

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bad as being a climate denier.

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That completely blew my mind, this idea.

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A climate doom, doomsayer is the

same as being a climate denier.

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No, I'm not saying that it's the same as,

um, I say that it's just as bad as, it's

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just as bad as being a climate denier.

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So what did they say

the reason for that is?

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Why?

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The reason is that when you are

a climate obviously you don't

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believe in climate change.

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Therefore, you just keep on living your

life, keep, you know, keep living the

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life as it has been, and then keep on

consuming and, uh, as if it's endless,

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it's the whole thing will never end.

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But where's been a climate doomist?

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And gloomist.

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I think you just invented a new term.

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A doomist and gloomist.

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Is that the same thing?

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Yeah.

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Somehow make us being hopeless.

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That means that We have

no faith in the future.

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No matter what we do, we are

doomed and the future is gloom.

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So, so one of them is

there's no such thing, right?

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There's no such thing as climate change.

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There's seasons, everything shifts around.

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It's all going to be fine

because it always has been fine.

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Blah, blah, blah, that

sort of whole thing.

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And then the doom and gloom is

Where it's so bad you've given up.

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Yeah.

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We know that the climate is

changing, but it's so bad that

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there's nothing we can do about it.

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Yeah.

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Is the theory.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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And so when you think that there's nothing

we can do about it, what do you do?

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Nothing.

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Nothing.

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Hey.

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So you do nothing on

purpose in the first one.

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You do nothing because you don't think

there's anything that needs doing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And the second one is you do

nothing because you feel there

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is nothing you can do this.

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It's worth doing.

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Yeah.

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It's worth doing.

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Okay.

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That makes sense.

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I wonder what people think about that.

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And so, so there's all the in between.

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You know, all the, yes, there's

climate change and what can each

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of us do about it or what can, or

there's people who panic about it.

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I know it's a big, you know,

there's climate anxiety.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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There's, that's a real thing.

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And so then these are sort of

two ends of the spectrum, maybe.

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Uh, yes, these are the

two ends of the spectrum.

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And, uh, I think it's very important

to be in between those two and, uh,

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And plus, it's fun to be hopeful.

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Well, sure it is.

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Well, but what do you, what happens if

you have somebody in your life who is

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either a doomist and gloomist, I love

that term, or a denier, what do you do?

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How do you talk to them?

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I think deniers, they are, they are not,

There are not so many deniers anymore.

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I think that, um, it's, uh,

it has become a consensus, at

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least where I live in France.

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Uh, climate change is a real thing.

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I mean, people believe it's a real

thing because it's a real thing.

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So there are not so many climate deniers.

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Um, I don't know how it is

on your end of the world.

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Um, I'm not, I think, you know, it

seems to run in North America along

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political lines, which is kind of weird

and, and it seems to really, cause

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as if it has to do with who you vote

for, it has nothing to do with that.

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Um, you know, it's science.

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And reality, and it's really, but

it seems to run along those lines

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in some places, not everywhere.

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Oh, interesting.

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And it's, um, it's really, it's hard for

me to say, I am still seeing people with

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their ginormous trucks, huge vehicles.

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Um, running their vehicles in the parking

lot, waiting for someone to grocery shop

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and they keep their vehicle running cause

it's cold out or it's hot out or whatever.

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, and I just want to bang on the

window and say, what are you doing?

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Um, but so I still see that.

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And I also right now live in

a town where, you know, almost

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everybody has a massive truck.

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And, you know, we're, we're unusual with

our little dinky putt putt cars, one

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of them being an ancient electric one.

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I mean, there are other people who are

concerned definitely about the climate.

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Um, where I live, but it, it seems

like it's not a consensus here and

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it's less of a consensus even with

our neighbors to the south in the U.

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S.

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So it's, um, I don't know.

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I think it's a challenge.

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It's not, there are

more people, hopefully.

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Coming on on board in

the middle somewhere.

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Yeah, but you, you say that you keep

seeing people with the big, big, big,

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big car and having the engine on.

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And you just assume that those

might be climate deniers.

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But what about if they.

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understand what climate change

is about, but they believe they

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could be different options.

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Actually, they believe it's

this, the it's not their problem.

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I mean, in the sense that there's

nothing, it's not their problem.

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They didn't create the problem.

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Therefore they to bring the solution

or those people believe that the

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future is doom and gloom anyway.

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And so they are trying to live

the, what they call quote unquote,

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the best life by buying the most

biggest and most polluting car.

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You see what I mean?

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Is that, you know, when you, you

think that there's no future and

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you think it's, Oh, we might be

the last generation of humanity.

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Well, and I don't want to, I don't want

to say that I think that every single

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person who has a big truck is a, you

know, is at either end of the spectrum

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because there are lots of reasons why

you need a truck, especially if you're

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working in an industry where you need one.

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No, I'm just, I, I, I just think

that, that there are, I mean,

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and there, the other thing to

note is that I have seen more.

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Well, I have seen more Teslas

than, you know, you go on

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the road and it's a game now.

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How many Teslas can I see on this drive?

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You know, which means there's a lot of

people with a lot of money for one thing,

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but there are a lot of, there is a lot

more electric infrastructure going in.

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Um, it's popping up at malls

almost everywhere you go.

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You can plug in a car, um, which is good.

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Um, and there are even gas

stations that are getting into it.

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There are gas stations that are

putting in charging stations

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and, uh, and things like that.

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So that, it, it is moving in that

direction, but I would not say

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we're at a consensus by any stretch

of the means in the North America.

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Yeah.

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So coming back to your question,

who do you say to people that are,

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um, on either end of the spectrum?

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So to me, climate deniers, I

haven't met so many lately.

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Um, those who believe that the future

is, there's no future, basically

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that we are doomed to, we might

be the last generation or that the

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future will be very, very bleak.

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Um, what did I say to them?

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I said, no, I tried to look at the,

at the right things because they are,

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they'll, I, yeah, I believe that if you

decide to look at the positive things in

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life, you will see the positive things.

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If you decide is to look at

the negative things, you'll see

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all the things that go wrong.

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So to those who believe that there

is nothing we can do, I just held

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them to, to move from the states of,

oh, there's nothing to, you know,

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to the state from the state of.

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been very negative about everything to

help them move to, to be in the positive

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mind and help them see things that are

positive and things that are happening.

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Like, I don't know, I keep seeing

all these good things happening.

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Okay.

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I think probably it's easier when

you live in Europe and particularly

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in the front in Paris, but, um, but

everywhere in the world, there are

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positive things about climate change.

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And, um, even though it's still It's,

um, yeah, we are currently, , we

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talking about this earlier that the,

the, the web is very strange lately,

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but yeah, even though we are currently

in a very, very weird weather, um, but

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climate change, we have not reached

the, um, , the tipping point yet.

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So, there's still things we can do.

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Still, there's still hope.

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And I think it's where, where your

attention goes, your energy flows, right?

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That, that statement.

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Um, and so what did it, what

is it you're focusing on?

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It's like the algorithm

of your life, right?

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Yeah.

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I like that.

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You focus on.

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Yes.

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And so if you're, if you're only thinking

in those two ways, um, and, and not

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to be Pollyanna about it, not to be.

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Um, you know, rainbows and unicorns,

but, um, there is a reality there,

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there are things that are suffering,

but here's a couple of interesting

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things I learned this week.

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One of them is that we actually in, uh, in

the Pacific ocean near, near our province,

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they have discovered a coral reef.

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Which they didn't know existed like a

coral reef, like you would see in, you

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know, in, in a warmer place that has all

the beauty and all the creatures and all

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the animals and the fish and the color.

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And they're just amazed.

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And they only just discovered

this like recently.

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And so there's a big flurry all

about that because what's that mean?

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So they're, they're looking at this.

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It's very, very far down in the ocean.

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Um, and so it doesn't have light to it.

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So it was accidentally found

when someone was with a

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submersible down there, I guess.

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But it looks exactly like some of the

ones we see elsewhere in the world.

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Just as beautiful.

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Only people can't go to it unless they're

in a submersible or they're doing it.

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remotely.

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So that was kind of neat.

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So there's things we're still

discovering, which I think is wonderful.

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And the other thing I heard about is,

and I only heard this briefly, um, in

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passing, but they are doing research now.

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They've discovered a whole bunch of other

mammals that go through menopause and

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they are researching whales and whales

do, and they're researching it and, and

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all the things that, and I thought, well,

that's maybe we'll learn from the animals.

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Like learn more, um, about how we're more

similar than dissimilar in many ways.

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And I think that's

always a positive thing.

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I think nature and, and creatures.

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Um, can teach us so much if we

are willing to listen, you know?

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Oh, I believe that we are just one

species, like any other animal, just

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that, yeah, we have our own set of rules,

our own, uh, communication, uh, rules

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and languages and, um, and pattern of,

of life, but we're just one species.

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This is what I believe.

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I, I do too.

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And I think this, you know, being in

charge of all the other species has

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put us into a really bad position.

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Uh, this whole.

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What makes you think, what

makes you think that we are in

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charge of all of the species?

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Exactly.

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I think we'll live in,

we'll live together.

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We are not, we, I mean, we

believe that we're in charge.

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And we have some responsibility, but

maybe they're in charge of us as well.

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Well, you know, and, and I think

our indigenous, uh, uh, siblings

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are, you know, have been well

aware and living in ways that were

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much more respectful and gentle.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, and yes, they hunted and ate and

they always gave thanks and used every

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single piece of the thing they hunted

and ate, you know, there was, there was.

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There was just a different level of

respect going on for the world around.

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And I think we have a lot to learn

from, um, the indigenous peoples

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of, of the lands that we live in.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah, I like, I like your point

of saying that there's still things

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that we are, we have discovered

recently and things we like to learn.

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learning.

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So yeah, maybe based on a few elements

that we know today that, um, we don't

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change the way we live, we consume

the future might not look so bright,

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but that a few things we can change.

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Uh, we can change, um,

individually, but also as a society.

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So those are the things that we

can change and then the discovery.

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Learnings.

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Yeah.

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I love it.

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I love that summary, Leaky.

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Yeah.

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So.

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I'm not.

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I, I, I also love your terminology,

so I'm not going to use that.

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Well, I don't know if you noticed, but

I keep inventing terminology on the fly.

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That's great.

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Why not?

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Yeah.

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Why not?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Well, thanks Leaky.

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Thank you.

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You've been listening to Carbon

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conversations for every day with

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