Episode 195

[FOCUS] Energy Transition and A Rare Earth Mine’s Journey To Net Zero

Episode Summary: this episode is a segment from a conversation with Stewart Watkins and Max Van Someren on sustainability and a rare earth minerals mining project in Western Australia  

Rare earth minerals play a crucial role in the energy transition, as they are used in various applications like electric vehicles and wind turbines. However, the mining of these minerals has had a poor environmental record.

To understand how an Australian mining project is improving this issue, we had a conversation with Stewart Watkins and Max Van Someren, where we discussed the broader context of the Nolans project in the energy transition.

Listen to the full episode

About the Nolans project

A presentation by Net Zero Perth on the Nolans Project

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

You can find out more on page 167, 172, 242, 252 and 253 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website you can tap the footnotes link and type in 100, 092, 124, 120 and 112 

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Olabanji is from Lagos Nigeria, he’s a Creative Director and visual designer that helps brands gain clarity, deliver meaningful experiences and build tribes through Design & Strategy. He founded Jorney - a community designed to help people stay productive, accountable, and do their best work.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France.  

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Transcript
Speaker:

Yeah, sure.

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Um, I will, I'll jump in at that point.

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Leaky, um, and that will be a nice

way to explain how I found out

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what rare elsewhere and how they

fit into the energy transition.

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Um, the net there Network is a,

a group here in Perth, in Western

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Australia, which was founded by me and

a couple of others, about two years.

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Because we were reading about the

importance of climate change and

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the potential changes that were

going to be required in society and

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within the economy, but we weren't

really sure how as individuals

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we could get involved to do more.

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We knew that there were small scale

things that we could do, like saving

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energy around our own homes, but we

didn't feel like that was enough.

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We wanted to use our professional

skills to have more impact.

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Um, and I didn't know who

to talk to about that.

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So a small group of us got together and we

decided to form a group which would help

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each other to identify opportunities for,

get involved, to get involved and do more.

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Um, that led to us meeting regularly,

uh, hearing from inspiring speakers who

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had made that transition themselves.

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And ultimately for me, it led me to

move from the job which I was in,

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which was designing ship, uh, which was

pretty interesting, but not directly

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related to decarbonization, to working

with a large engineering company, kbr

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r helping companies like Aira, who

will hear from in a minute, uh, with

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their decarbonization strategies.

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Um, And, um, the net network has

been fantastic for connecting

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to all sorts of people.

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Have helped me understand what

that, what, what the options are

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for industry and society as a whole.

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Pretty decarbonize.

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So you came to the product without

milli anything about Ra Eber almost.

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It was, there was definitely

a learning curve for me.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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So, um, I, I'm an engineer by

background and I bought experience

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in decarbonization technologies.

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Uh, but uh, I didn't understand

the rare Earth domain and, and I'd

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heard about them I think like most

of us have in, in a passing sense.

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But I wasn't really sure exactly what

role they played in the energy transition.

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Uh, which is I think something that

few who've got a much longer background

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than me in Rare Earth can probably

describe to you in much more detail.

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Sure.

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Max.

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You know, and, and I think the, the,

the funny thing about this is most

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people dunno what rare earths are.

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They're, they're those things that sit

down at the bottom of the periodic table.

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Just above uranium and

thorium, those fun ones.

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Um, and, and nobody covers them in high

school chemistry, you know, and, and,

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and the funny part about rare earths

is they're not actually that rare.

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Um mm-hmm.

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They're rare in as much as they

don't often come in a lot of

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concentration in the earth, but

they're, they're kind of all around us.

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They're all over the place.

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Um, now rare earths are also not used

all that much, but where they are used,

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they are adding a massive, massive value.

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Um, the ones that, that, uh, you

know, Aira, the company that I work

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for and joined about five years

ago, is really interested in, uh,

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Emon, neodymium, and Permium, and

yeah, everybody stumbles over it.

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So for that, we call it N D P R because

those ones are the ones that go into

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ultra high strength permanent magnets.

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We've all sort of played around with,

um, you know, those really strong

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little magnets that stick like, uh,

like you can't believe, and then there

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doesn't seem to be anything to them.

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Well, those are rare earth magnets, and

it's the rare earths that go in there that

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do all that funky physics stuff and make

a, a, a magnet that is so, so super strong

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that, that you, you wouldn't believe them.

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Wow.

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Does that make sense?

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So it does make sense.

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Um, you say it's not that rare, but,

so why do we call it rare Earth then?

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Oh, I'm gonna blame

some old chemistry guy.

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You know?

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Uh, they're also known as the amides,

if you wanna, if you wanna get all

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chemical, but, um, yeah, they're,

they're called rare earths and,

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and it's a lot easier to explain.

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I guess they're rare around

the earth in as much as.

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At the moment, it something like

about 85% of the rare earth produced

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in this world are refined, mined, and

refined under the control of China.

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Um, and, and that makes

it a very interesting

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geopolitical situation as well.

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Mm-hmm.

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The, the other explanation that

I had heard about why they were

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colloquially called rare earths

originally, it's because although

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there's a lot of them in the aircraft,

they're challenging to extract.

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And so for a long time it was, it was,

it was difficult to create a lot of prof,

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rare earth metal, which made them rare.

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Mm-hmm.

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I'll, I'll take that one Max.

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Um, and you there, Stuart, you touched

upon, uh, the incredible properties

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of Rare Earth, very, very strong

magnet Earlier, uh, you guys were

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talking about how rare earth are

involved in, in all sorts of end use

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uses within the energy transition.

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Things like electric

vehicles, for example.

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Maybe Stuart, you could just

explain how strong magnet.

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Make things like electric

vehicles a better product.

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Yeah, sure.

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Um, you know, and, and, and the

reason why, uh, get digging into

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that, you know, when, when you have

an electric motor, basically you

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have two rotating, or one stationary

and one rotating magnetic field.

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So you know that that's

how these things work.

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We'll pick the engineering

nerd over here in this corner.

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So when, when you, when you have a

motor and, and particularly an electric

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vehicle or a, or a wind turbine or, or

something like that, really what, what

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you're trying try, kind of looking for

is the lightest weight and the lowest en

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energy consumption to get you from A to B.

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It's like in your petrol car, you, you,

you wanna be able to drive around using

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the least amount of petrol in electric

vehicle and I've got one on order.

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Um, you know, you want to be able to drive

around plugging it in the least amount

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and use the least amount of electrons.

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So if you've got one of those

magnetic fields, um, being generated

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from a permanent magnet, Rather

than from an electromagnet, then

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you are using less energy to get

the wheels turning if you like.

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Now, um, the, the research that we did

here when we were doing some marketing

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work was that a rare earth permanent

magnet motor is about 15% more efficient

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than an induction motor where you've

got two, two electromagnet coils.

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Um, so in that respect, imagine

you've got a 15% more efficient,

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fuel efficient vehicle.

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So that's why they're super important.

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And then when you think about, say, a

wind turbine, you know, we've got only a

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certain amount of wind blowing past it.

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So if you've got 15% more, um, efficiency

in your generation, you get 15% more

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bang for your buck for the capital

cost of putting up a wind turbine.

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Now, I guarantee you guys have

actually got a rare earth magnet

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motor at home right now, or if you

haven't, a lot of, a lot of people

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who listen to this will have.

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Anybody got a brushless cordless

drill, that's what they sell 'em as.

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Now they've got a permanent magnet motor

in it that will generally use rare Earth.

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So, so they are kind of all around

us, but with the energy transition

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that's going on, the demand for rare

earths has really jumped, jumped

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through the roof in recent days.

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Add to that, the whole covid situation and

wanting to have diversification of supply

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chains outside of one particular country

and, and all of a sudden the, the world

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is sort of thinking critical minerals.

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We've all heard about lithium and

graphite and so on and so forth, but

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they're starting to think about rare

earths in reality and, and saying,

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we need different sources of these to

actually achieve the goals that we have

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for decarbonizing our, our society.

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It, it's interesting, Stuart,

that you mentioned the supply

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chain for railroad there.

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I was reminded of the other day when

I was in Bunnings, which is the chain

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of hardware doors here in Australia.

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And I could these, some neodinium

magnets, which were on sale, I think

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they were for hanging pictures.

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So just these tiny magnets, which you

stick to the back of a picture frame.

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And because of the work that I'm doing

with Afuera, it immediately made me

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think of where that magnet has come from.

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So where the, where the original iron or,

oh, sorry, original, um, nd or would've

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come from where it would've been processed

probably in China, and then it had

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made its way all the way to Australia.

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Wow.

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There's a lot of science going

around and I'm enjoying it.

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Um, but so what you're saying is that

rare earth makes, um, our use of energy

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more efficient when, when it comes to

electric motors, which you need for an

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electric vehicle or a wind turbine, those

rare earth permanent magnet that go into

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those, um, motors are more efficient.

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I mean, rare earths are used

in a lot of other things.

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I mean, yo know, uh, we other rare

earths, those are neodymium and

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Presidium, other rare earths like, um,

serum and lanum are used and they're

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a lot more abundant than N D P R.

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They're used in catalysts

for, um, refining.

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Um, if you do have a petrol car,

you stinky heathen, you know, really

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the, the catalyst that converts,

uh, in the, um, in, in the catalytic

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converter would have lan in a, in it.

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So rare earths are all around us, if

you like, they're the 11, part of the

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11, her special herbs and spices that

go into making ordinary everyday things.

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Amazing.

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. So it's not just rare,

it's like rare earth.

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There's like a lot of them.

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It's not just one specific

thing we're talking about.

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Yeah.

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There, there's, there's about, oh, and

my, this is where I find the, the chemical

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engineer doesn't have much chemistry.

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I think there's about 11 rare

earths that are 11 elements that

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are classified as rare earths.

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, it's also probably important to

differentiate between critical

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minerals and rare earth, cuz

they're two similar founding things.

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But actually rare earth is a

subset of critical minerals.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, criticality, uh, when we talk

about critical minerals, is really

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referring to the importance of

these whole range of different

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minerals in the energy transition.

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Uh, and the fact that supply for

a lot of them is gonna have to

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increase in scale dramatically.

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Um, but they're not interchangeable terms.

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Rare earth is one subset of

a larger, larger definition.

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Wow.

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And that includes things

like copper, for example.

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So, so traditional metal, but

which we're gonna need a lot more

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of as we electrify everything.

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Hmm.

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I've read somewhere.

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Um, they, , we have found, um, some

rare earth in Sweden, but , it will

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take some time, it will take probably

it's 15 years for, the rare herbs

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from Sweden to be used in our, , to

get into our, phones or electrical.

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So, and in 15 years we'll even do it.

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, we would need this kind of

a cnce in our, um, vein.

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So why does it take so long?

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Look, and, and I think, I think Max

touched on it earlier, you know, it,

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it really comes down to the processing.

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Um, the, the mining of

these things is fairly easy.

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I mean, you know, dig it up as a whole.

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It's, it's the same as mining anything.

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But the processing, because what

you're trying to do is take something

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that's one or 2% of all rare earths.

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So of our OR body, for example, at

Nolan's, um, you know, we're, our

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head grade is, is around that sort

of, you know, about 0.7, 0.8% N D P R.

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And we take that 0.7 or 0.8%.

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We refine that to 99.9% N D P R.

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So, you know, there, there's a massive

amount of processing that goes on

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and, and these things are really, um,

there, there's a, uh, there's a lot

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of chemistry that goes into it to both

get it into a form that you can play

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with it, get it in solution, purify

it, separate it from those, from the

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other rare earths as well at the end.

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So it's the processing

that takes the time.

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And, and to give you some perspective,

you know, Nolans was discovered.

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That's the project that I'm running,

s was discovered in, in about:

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You know, they're out

there looking for uranium.

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Um, luckily the, the, the, the deposit

was largely outcropping, so it was,

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uh, expressing through the surface.

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And so a plane with a, a radiometer,

um, very sensitive radiometer flew

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over the top of it and it went spining.

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There you go.

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And so they went and looked at the

rocks and went, oh, there's not enough

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uranium there to be, uh, interesting.

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But, uh, another geologist came

along and went, ah, there's

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some rare earths in that.

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And, but it took us, we've been going

for, uh, you know, twen 20 plus years to

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work out and crack the Rosetta stone of

how to process this particular or body

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and how much it is there and where it

is, and all those fun, other fun things

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you do in mining, um, to actually work

out how to get the rare earth out of it

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in a, in a, in a cost effective manner.

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Wow.

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Reminds me of Black Panther,

you know, looking for vibranium.

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Oh, look, no, this stuff is

way more fun than vibranium.

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And you know, I, you, you, you do

have the advantage of seeing me.

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You can imagine me in a, in

a, in a tight leather suit.

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Oh, there's a reason I'm an engineer.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Better move the conversation

more quickly from that.

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I, I think that, go ahead.

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Sorry.

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No, I was just gonna say, if this is

more interesting than vibranium, then

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this just got like 1000% more core.

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