Episode 194
[FRIENDS] Sarah Johnson, The COP26 Experience by Talaterra
Episode Summary: This is a rebroadcast from another podcast, 'Talaterra', in which Tania Marien interviewed Sarah Johnson about her COP26 Experience
EPISODE NOTES (original)
‘In this episode, Sarah Johnson talks about her experience at the United Nations Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP26) and offers her thoughts about building relationships and addressing climate change.
Sarah is a landscape-based environmental educator. As a freelance science educator, she is focused on climate change, public lands, watershed science, civics, and geography, and teaching and learning through her business, Wild Rose Education. She designs and facilitates educator professional development workshops, teaches public lands courses, teaches International Arctic Buoy Program STEM programs, and facilitates a Colorado cohort of climate change educators. Sarah has created and facilitated numerous environmental education programs including the award-winning Youth Water Leadership Program.
Sarah is currently a PolarTREC educator, Spirituality and EE eePro Group Moderator, Guidelines for Excellence eePro Group Moderator, and also a student of the Living School at the Center for Action and Contemplation. Sarah has been based in western Colorado working to protect rivers and public lands through education since 2004 where she enjoys playing outside during all seasons, gardening, and making music.
Follow Sarah’s Arctic Expeditions
Learn more about and join the U.S. ACE Coalition
Read more about Sarah’s UNFCCC COP26 experience through her blog.
United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)
More about Sarah and how she founded Wild Rose Education’
Follow Tania’s work and listen to more Talaterra episodes
For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org
Want to join in the conversation?
Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.
Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!
You can find out more about COP26 on page 240 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website, you can tap the footnotes link and type in 128.
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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang
Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert, and podcaster from Paris, France.
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.
Transcript
Hi, I'm Christina.
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:I'm from Prague.
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:Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.
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:Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.
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:Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.
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:Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.
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:Welcome to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with
Carbon Conversations for every day, with
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:everyone, from everywhere in the world.
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:In our conversations, we share ideas.
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:Perspectives, questions, and things we
can actually do to make a difference.
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:So don't be shy and join our Carbon
Sessions because it's not too late.
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:Leekei: Hi, it's Nikki.
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:And welcome to today's
episode of carbon sessions.
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:Today, we're bringing you a special
rebroadcast from Tara, Tara.
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:A podcast hosted by Tanya Marin, a
member of the Coban Almanac network.
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:Tanya is an independent
environmental education professional.
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:And in this episode, she speaks with Sarah
Johnson about her observer experience at
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:the cup climate conference in Glasgow.
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:Those are wonder.
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:Cup stands for conference of the parties.
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:Which is an annual global summit we're
world leaders, scientists, and activists.
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:Come together on the United
nations to negotiate and review
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:policies regarding climate change.
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:Sarah attended cop 26 in
the capacity of an observer.
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:And unlike negotiators who
actively participate in crafting
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:and agreeing to policy decisions.
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:Observers monitor and
report on the proceedings.
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:They provide transparency,
gather insights.
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:And share information with the broader
public, but observers do not engage in
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:the negotiation processes themselves.
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:Sara's reflection from the event of
filled with excitement, O N humility.
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:I'll bring a blend of diverse,
worldviews and rich human experiences.
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:She underscores the complexity
of climate discussions.
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:Reminding us that they
are really simple answers.
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:Sarah also highlights the impactful
role of art and storytelling in
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:spreading the message of climate
urgency and climate justice.
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:So let's tune in.
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:Welcome to Talaterra, a podcast
about freelance educators working
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:in natural resource fields
and environmental education.
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:Who are these educators?
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:What do they do?
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:Join me and let's find out together.
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:This is your host, Tanya Marion.
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:Today, my guest is Sarah Johnson.
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:Sarah is a freelance science educator
whose specialty areas are climate change,
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:public lands, watershed science, civics,
geography, and teaching and learning.
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:Sarah leads educator professional
development workshops, teaches
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:public lands courses, teaches
programs for the International Arctic
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:Buoy Program and leads a Colorado
cohort of climate change educators.
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:Sarah's created and facilitated
many environmental education
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:programs, including the award winning
Youth Water Leadership Program.
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:In November 2021, Sarah had the
opportunity to attend the United Nations
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:Climate Change Conference of the Parties.
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:usually referred to as COP26.
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:In this episode, Sarah takes
us to Scotland and shares
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:her experience at this event.
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:Thank you, Sarah, for stopping by
to be on the show and to share your
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:experience in Glasgow with us at COP26.
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:It's wonderful to be here with you.
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:Thanks for the invitation.
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:From what I've read in the summary, or
from the UN's summary about the Climate
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:Change Conference in Glasgow, There
were 40, 000 registered participants,
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:and that of those 40, 000, there were
14, 000 or more than 14, 000 observers
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:there, and you were there as an observer.
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:And so I was wondering, how were
you able to participate in that
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:capacity at that landmark event?
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:And so if you could explain, um, what
the observers did or were able to do and
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:how you were able to join in that way.
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:It all comes down to relationships.
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:I have been working with an organization
in Minnesota called Climate Generation
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:that many folks are familiar with
that are, Climate Generation is a
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:lead climate education organization,
not only in the Northern Midwest, but
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:now I would say all over the country.
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:And they host a summer institute for
education, for climate change education.
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:And educators, both formal and non formal
educators, are encouraged to participate.
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:And because it has gone virtual since
:
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:for different regions of the country.
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:And they called me and said, would
you like to be a regional cohort
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:leader in the summer of 2020?
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:And no one knew what that exactly meant
or how that was going to play out.
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:And I said, sure, let's
figure it out together.
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:Before that, I had been in
relationships with leading climate
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:change education professionals across
the country through conferences
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:and other professional networks.
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:And they knew about me and so then
I've grown those relationships and
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:in September, I was reaching out
to colleagues and mentors, just
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:checking in on the, the playing
field of environmental education.
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:Like, where are we and
where are we headed?
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:And what shall I do next?
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:And somebody said from Climate Generation
said, you should come to Glasgow with us.
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:And I was like, Really?
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:And so they know of a there's a
charter high school outside of
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:the Twin Cities that has typically
taken students to United Nations
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:climate meetings in the past.
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:And because of COVID, those students
were unable to travel this year.
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:And so in this last minute
timeframe, I'm They were looking
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:for educators to take their places.
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:The administration was passing
those observer badges forward.
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:And so anyway, long story short is
that I was offered one of those badges,
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:along with a few other really awesome
educators from around the country.
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:And we went as a civil society
or observers, as you said, and so
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:in addition to the relationships
specifically with climate generation, I
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:also am part of something called the U.
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:S.
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:ACE Coalition, and ACE stands for the
Action for Climate Empowerment Coalition.
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:And many people, including you who are
listening to this podcast, probably
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:are doing the work of ACE and probably
should join the ACE coalition.
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:Everyone's welcome.
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:And the work of the ACE coalition is
to be advocates for six big buckets
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:of empowerment around climate change.
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:And those big buckets are education,
training, public awareness.
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:access to information, public
participation, international
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:collaboration, and then all of that
through a lens of climate justice.
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:And the Action for Climate Empowerment
language is actually United
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:Nations language and it's something
bigger than the United States.
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:And we are all around the world encouraged
or directed by the United Nations to be
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:finding ways to put this idea into action
within all of our climate policy work and
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:climate, all climate work of all kinds.
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:And it's a people centered
focus for climate change work.
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:And so there was a whole group
of us who were part of the U.
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:S.
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:ACE coalition.
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:And.
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:We were not all of that coalition was
able to attend, but a large handful of
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:us from America were, and I was there
and I was part of press conferences
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:and media blitzes and all kinds of
different things that were happening.
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:All around supporting the
ACE framework or the ACE, the
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:Action for Climate Empowerment
within the larger negotiations.
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:That's just sounds wonderful.
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:So exciting.
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:So you find out that you have a badge
that you can use and that you have
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:the opportunity to go to Glasgow.
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:And how much notice did you have?
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:I found out two and a half weeks
before I flew away that I was
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:going to get to go to Scotland.
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:That's good.
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:And so nothing like traveling
during a global pandemic, let
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:alone to a global meeting of people
from all around the world and all
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:within a very short timeframe to
have international travel set up.
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:And so it was, it was all consuming.
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:And thankfully I, I mean, the only
reason I was able to say yes is
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:because I did have that flexibility
as an independent Person as an
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:independent business, I didn't have
to ask the committee for permission.
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:I didn't have to do much.
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:I did sit on it.
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:I think for maybe 24 hours, it may
have been more like 18 hours before I
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:said absolutely yes, because I was so
excited, but I, yeah, I pulled all of it
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:together between the United Airlines, the
United Nations and the United Kingdom.
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:It was, it was a really,
it was quite challenging.
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:And like I said, it was all
consuming before I went.
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:And in addition to the logistics
of getting there, it was also the
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:storytelling and the people in my
community wanting to know that I was
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:going and then being able to be available
for PR and press and media things.
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:So that story could be told.
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:People here in rural Colorado, there
are local community radio station and
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:our newspapers and my own media outlets
of all the social media and websites
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:and emails and really leveraging this
opportunity as from a professional
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:development perspective, but also from
a credibility development perspective.
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:I have a lot of credibility, but
it just was such an opportunity to.
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:To really keep Wildrose education
on the map as well, I mean, as I
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:mean myself on the map as well.
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:And so it was navigating all of
those pieces as well as trying
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:to figure out what in the world
my role was in supporting the U.
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:S.
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:ACE coalition and understanding,
kind of getting brought up to
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:speed on all those details.
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:And then dealing with COVID and lodging
and food and the food was, yeah,
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:the food wasn't that complicated.
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:It was the lodging and just
all the logistics of travel.
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:How did you resolve the lodging
issue on such short order?
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:Did they already have things set up?
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:So many people probably have watched
in the news or heard throughout
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:media that Glasgow lodging
became outrageously expensive.
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:And basically the people there were
gouging of the people coming to the COP26.
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:But then there was this, like,
fringe organization that got set
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:up called the COP26 Coalition.
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:And they did all kinds of stuff
outside of the formal conference of
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:the parties, is what COP stands for.
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:And one of the things they did was set up
a, something called the Homestay Network.
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:And they found, uh, oodles of
people across the city and the
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:surrounding area in Scotland around
Glasgow to offer up bedrooms and
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:couches and all kinds of situations.
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:And so I pieced together a
couple different homestays.
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:One was with a gentleman and his wife
who were super involved in climate
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:justice work through their church.
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:So it was fascinating to show up and be in
their house and then share some stories.
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:And then I also, I had
to piece it together.
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:I couldn't find one place for 12 days.
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:And so I also ended up staying at a
young couple's house and that one was a
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:PhD student and one was in med school.
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:And.
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:And again, they were looking for ways
to contribute and be part of this
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:massive movement and metropolitan
event that was taking over their city.
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:And so this was one
way they could do that.
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:And it was really cool because then I got
to actually see people from Scotland and
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:from Glasgow and when you're at a global
event, you don't necessarily meet that
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:many people from the place where you are.
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:They're from everywhere else.
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:So that was really nice.
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:And then I also stayed a few
nights with a group of people.
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:Um, colleagues and friends actually
from Boulder, Colorado, and they
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:had rented an apartment and they
generously offered to share some
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:of their space for a couple nights.
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:So it was a piecemeal thing and
I, but I, but it worked and I
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:just had very light luggage.
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:So I moved around the city
on trains and buses and.
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:I used a lot of public transportation,
so that was wonderful that was available.
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:Okay, so you get this spontaneous
invitation, you have a badge,
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:you get yourself on a plane,
you have accommodations that
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:you put together, and you go.
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:get to go to COP26.
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:So what did you get to do as an observer?
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:What was a typical day like for you?
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:I think we have to back up a step
and explain that there's basically
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:two different COPs going on,
Conference of the Parties, right?
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:There is the very formal actual treaty
body that's having negotiations on
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:behalf of our governmental institutions,
like the United States of America.
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:And then there's this.
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:What we might call the metropolitan
cop, which is all the civil society,
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:all the hoopla, all the energy, all
the side meetings, all the protests
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:of marches, this whole other thing.
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:And so I was part of all of that.
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:I was not part of the governmental
treaty, um, body negotiations.
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:That was very.
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:I'm not even sure I knew where
that was actually happening.
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:Apparently it was somewhere in this
conference facility that was taking over
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:a humongous amount of geographic space.
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:And civil society or observers were
not welcome into those spaces, so
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:I don't even know where they were.
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:But in my role as a, it was called
an, um, yeah, an observer, I.
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:got to be part of what's
called the Blue Zone.
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:And so also at COP there are the
Blue Zone and the Green Zone.
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:And the Blue Zone is for people with
badges and the Green Zone is for
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:more of whoever shows up in the city.
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:And it was held at the Science
Museum across the river.
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:And the blue zone is all
this conference like space.
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:And it's like a massive trade
show, like the biggest trade
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:show you've ever been to.
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:And instead of like booths at a trade
show, they called them pavilions.
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:And each country was invited,
or I'm not exactly sure how that
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:came about, but many countries had
pavilions in this massive trade show.
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:And, as well as constituent groups
and other entities like the Nature
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:Conservancy had their own, their
own pavilion, as an example.
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:And so within that space, I, there was
a lot of hoopla and never ending energy.
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:It was constant.
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:I think I figured out that we'd walked
about, I think I'd walked 15 miles in
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:a day, according to my step counter on
my phone, but, and so you get up early,
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:you, I had gone to the grocery store
and bought food for breakfast and.
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:Made simple breakfast, navigated all
the transportation the train typically
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:took, depending on which place I was
staying, it took at least two trains and
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:sometimes a bus to get to the place and
then to get through all the like five
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:layers of security between the COVID test.
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:Oh, I, I forgot.
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:We started at home with COVID
testing every single day.
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:And then you had to upload
that information onto the
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:National Health Board website.
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:So anyway, there's five levels of
security just to get into the conference
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:center, and I don't know if it's, I've
never been to an event so big, and
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:social distancing was, had like, forget
that, it was like walking into a place
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:where COVID didn't exist, except that
everyone was wearing masks, and a huge
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:percentage of people, like 98 percent of
folks declared that they had vaccines.
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:And so it felt actually pretty safe.
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:But from a covid perspective,
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:good afternoon all cop delegates.
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:We camely remind you to wear your
face mask over your mouth and noise
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:at all times during your time.
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:And we would wait in line and
in, in the British vernacular
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:instead of waiting in light.
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:It's called queuing.
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:I became a professional, um, at
queuing for a very long time every day.
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:And um, so once you're
finally in to the blue zone.
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:Which sometimes it took from the time I
left the, where I was staying to actually
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:get through the metal detectors and all
the way in about an hour and a half to
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:two hours just to get into the conference.
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:So this was not like any conference
you've ever been to where you just come
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:and go and you walk down the street
for coffee and then you come back.
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:None of that.
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:It was very, um, humongous.
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:And so.
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:In the Blue Zone, I tried to navigate
schedules and figure out who was speaking
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:where, and we had a representation
from America of different governmental
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:leaders and legislators and people like
Gina McCarthy and Leonardo DiCaprio was
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:there, I mean, he's not a government,
there were speakers happening all the
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:time, you just had to figure out how to
navigate about 12 different schedules.
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:And the schedules weren't
printed until the night before
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:typically, and at like 10 o'clock.
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:So exhausting is what it was.
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:And it was like in every direction
and like physically exhausting, it was
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:mentally overwhelming and emotionally
it was, it was absolutely exhausting
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:because you'd be trying to keep
track of what was actually happening
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:in the actual negotiations, which.
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:Was very challenging, but then
you'd listen, you'd stand in line
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:or queue, be in the queue next
to people from all over the world
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:listening, and I just talk to people.
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:I would be like, so where are you from?
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:And then I would ask them like questions
of, so what's, how is climate change
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:affecting Your family or your town
and the stories I would hear firsthand
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:from people from literally around the
world was unbelievably eye opening.
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:And so there was a lot of that.
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:And then you'd hear, you'd hear of
this unbelievable trauma of these
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:communities around climate change impacts.
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:But then you turn around and you
talk to somebody else and it'd be
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:like the most inspiring climate
action story you've ever heard.
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:And so it's just kind
of a yo yo of emotions.
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:And so.
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:What did you become aware
of while in Glasgow?
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:I mean, what, what surprised you
that you didn't know, that you
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:didn't know maybe one thing that
you, that surprised you the most?
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:And then if you could then also follow
that then with a, an inspirational
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:story, something that, that moved you.
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:I think the most surprising thing
is that I thought I had a global
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:understanding of climate change.
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:And as someone who is so in that work and
so committed to this work and has been
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:for so many years, ground was pulled out
from under me to realize, and I realized
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:that, I have so much more learning to do
to understand what climate change really
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:means in places all around the world.
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:And understanding this complexity
and nuance and so many layers of
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:just so many layers of complexity.
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:And, and I, like I said, I thought
I understood and I, and I found
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:out that I don't and, or that
I, that I have a great start.
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:And I think.
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:That's probably true for a lot of people.
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:I don't think I'm the only one in that.
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:Um, as far as something that was
inspiring, some of the most inspiration
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:that I left Glasgow with is knowing
that I had found my people in America
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:because of the pandemic, so much of.
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:All these relationships that I have
grown in the last couple of years have
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:always been pixels on a screen or over
the phone, and I'd never actually been
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:able to shake anybody's hand that I, or
give a pat on the back, let alone a hug.
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:And when running around with
all these wonderful people
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:who are involved in the U.
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:S.
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:ACE coalition, and getting a chance
to build just hallway conversations
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:and all the things that we've
been missing during this pandemic.
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:It just filled me up.
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:It filled me up in a way that I
was like, wow, I found my people.
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:These people, we're all
speaking the same language.
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:We're all here for the same reason.
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:And then we would add to this
American group, like these other
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:people from other countries that
are also doing the same good work in
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:unique ways for their communities.
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:And it was just, again, it was like,
it filled me up with this energy that,
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:wow, there's amazing people out there.
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:And I'm part of that, but, and
I'm doing amazing work where I am.
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:And, and that was, It's silly to think
you have to fly across the Atlantic
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:Ocean to meet your friends from
Minneapolis or from upstate New York,
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:but that's how it, that's what happened.
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:Or I finally made connections with a
colleague who's down in Tucson, Arizona.
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:Because we were all there and,
or, and that was just, it's what
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:happened and it was really good.
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:How is the rest of the world
dealing with climate change?
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:We have a very much a U.
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:S.
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:centric viewpoint and how is
the rest of the world doing?
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:What types of stories did you hear?
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:So COP26 kind of themes were,
there were many of them, a few of
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:them were things around finance
and mitigation and adaptation.
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:And there were others, but the, what's
interesting is that the global north
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:or first world countries that have the
least amount of people, but the most
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:carbon emissions are really interested
in, uh, mitigation and innovation and
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:inventing something else that's going
to somehow Natural solutions, um, things
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:that are, are kind of future focused,
whereas people from the global South,
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:typically the lower socioeconomic
countries with less infrastructure
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:and less money and who have the most
people and the least amount of emissions
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:and are dealing with unbelievable
impacts of climate change right now.
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:Whether it's their islands are eroding
away or they're such incredible drought
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:that they're famines and then there's
civil unrest as well as terrible things
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:happening to women and children and
the list goes on and these people are
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:telling the global north that We don't
have time for mitigation and innovation.
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:We have to deal with adaptation right now.
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:And we, because we don't have,
it's right now, we don't have time.
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:And the global South, what I
was hearing, um, over and over.
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:Is that until the people in the global
north, us in America and other very
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:rich countries, until we actually stop
consuming so much stuff, they don't
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:want to hear about our innovative ideas.
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:They want, if, until we actually reduce
the amount of fossil fuels that we are
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:burning each and every day, they're
not going to take us very seriously.
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:And they aren't.
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:Okay.
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:Okay.
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:And, and that was eye opening to me.
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:I, that's a conversation I had never
really heard because, I mean, I
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:read probably the same things that
the listeners to this podcast are
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:reading and, um, and I listen to
news and I pay attention to things
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:and I thought, I think I have a
pretty broad understanding of things.
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:Until I understood the Global South's
perspective of, of natural solutions.
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:And so natural solutions.
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:So if we're going to keep, we're going
to keep living the way we live, but
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:we're going to plant trees in South
America in some village and have
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:this carbon offset kind of thing.
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:Or we're going to keep developing and
bulldozing here, but then we're going to
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:do something really good in some country
in Africa, but we're not even going to
393
:really ask the local people in Africa
what they need in the whatever country.
394
:We're just going to do it because
we're, we know that we need to
395
:come up with something to make us
feel better, but we're not going to
396
:actually, uh, minimize our mis our
consumption here in our very comfortable
397
:places that we get to be in America.
398
:And so there were like, hashtag, like
in the, the marches and in the, even
399
:in the blue zone, this whole false
solutions, like hashtag false solutions
400
:and using words like carbon colonialism
were very common, and those are words
401
:I had never, ever heard together.
402
:And that's not the language that's
getting talked about in places like Aspen,
403
:Colorado, where I, down the road from
Aspen, and other very affluent places.
404
:So, How I, people are dealing with climate
change, I think, is so unique to the
405
:place where they are and their worldview
and how comfortable they are or not.
406
:And it's a very human problem.
407
:It's a, it's a problem with
people and society more than
408
:anything else at this point.
409
:The earth is going to be okay.
410
:I'm, it's the people that we have to
figure out how to take care of each other
411
:a little bit better or a whole lot better.
412
:And how might we do that?
413
:How might we do that?
414
:I think the first step in any of this
work is turning a bit inside towards
415
:internally into our own hearts and minds
and really doing some soul searching and
416
:some soul work to understand who we really
are individually so that we can then be
417
:a little bit more empathetic and a little
more curious about people who are not like
418
:me, people that are different than myself.
419
:Yeah.
420
:Thank you.
421
:And, and then go out of my way
and be inconvenienced a little bit
422
:to get to know people that aren't
like myself and do that work.
423
:And that's, it's, our society is
not exactly encouraging a lot of
424
:hetero, like we're very homogeneous.
425
:We don't have a lot of heterogeneous
opportunity to like mix up and get to
426
:know other people like we maybe used to 30
years ago when things were, there was more
427
:civic clubs and things of that nature.
428
:And so I think we have to now
we have to work harder to find
429
:people that are not like us.
430
:And I don't mean just people
of color versus white people.
431
:I mean, like worldviews, different
socioeconomics, background
432
:difference, immigrant stories that
are different, rural, urban, whatever,
433
:all the mix of possibility of what
could make people's perspective
434
:and culture different than mine.
435
:And I think once we actually have
direct encounters with people that are
436
:different than us, we It's really hard
to unsee that and unsee those stories,
437
:and whether those people are from some
island in like the Maldives in the
438
:Indian Ocean, or that person is my,
lives across town in my own community,
439
:once I have an encounter with them and
actually have body language and smiles
440
:and shake their hand and hear them and
hear their stories, That sticks with you.
441
:You can't erase that from your experience.
442
:And I think that's what the world
needs more of, because then you start
443
:to be, because we're humans, and
humans are innately compassionate
444
:and innately take care of each other.
445
:I think that's just part of being human.
446
:I think we will begin to take care
of more people in new ways if we have
447
:more true encounters with people.
448
:A lot of people have asked
me, Was COP successful?
449
:Did they make decisions?
450
:Did, are you satisfied with what happened?
451
:And I think we might need
to reframe that question.
452
:And that's the question that's
showing up, you know, that showed
453
:up in the media left and right.
454
:And it's, it's an
obvious kind of question.
455
:I mean, it doesn't, it's
not a judgment on anybody.
456
:reframe that question to
consider that how it all happens.
457
:Is that there's this actual treaty body of
parties, government entities, government
458
:leaders that are negotiating, and
they're actually negotiating and having
459
:conversations for weeks and months before
they ever show up at the COP, and then
460
:they continue to have more, and then they
hopefully get to some kind of agreement.
461
:But it's the whole system is so
complicated and not just the content
462
:of climate change and adaptation
and mitigation and finance and
463
:all the possible solutions and
the science and the economics and
464
:the never ending complexity there.
465
:Then there's the complexity of just how
the United Nations operates and how,
466
:how these different people actually
have different titles and different
467
:roles and are at different tables
for different and different rooms for
468
:all these different things and they,
and they, It's constantly moving and
469
:somehow somebody's keeping track of all
that's happening all at the same time.
470
:And then there's all of us out in
the outside who want answers of
471
:what happened and was it successful?
472
:And we don't remember that.
473
:It takes time, maybe 24 hours, to actually
give these human beings, who are only
474
:as human as you and I, time to digest
what just happened where they were, let
475
:alone listen to whatever happened in the
room next door with their colleagues,
476
:to then try to piece it together and
figure out how to make sense of it all.
477
:And then you might actually be able
to follow it all just as easily
478
:from a computer in Kansas as you
could have if you had been trying to
479
:navigate the event center like I was.
480
:Um, you probably had more success
following the actual negotiations from
481
:a computer than being in the space.
482
:And so I think we just have
to remember that all of this
483
:process is super complicated.
484
:And anybody who gives us very quick yes
or no, right, wrong kinds of answers, we
485
:might want to ask some more questions and
say, actually, this might be more complex.
486
:Let's dig in a little deeper because
there is no such thing as a simple
487
:answer of was it successful or did
they accomplish what they tried to?
488
:And so I just, I think that's a
really important thing to keep in mind
489
:when thinking about these humongous.
490
:United nation type gatherings of
negotiators and government leaders.
491
:Oh, thank you for that.
492
:Yeah.
493
:Yeah.
494
:It just looked like a really,
I mean, it's hard to organize
495
:a classroom with 35 students.
496
:I can't imagine what it's like and
all the different customs and cultures
497
:and all those things you need to.
498
:And I speak English and I
thought it was overwhelming.
499
:Okay.
500
:So in a review of the study that's
called Global Warming, Six Americas,
501
:they, It is a review of the different,
different groups of people and their
502
:different perspectives about the subject
of climate change, climate science.
503
:And so the point that this study makes
is that there isn't just one America.
504
:There are actually six Americas,
six within the country.
505
:And that there are people who are in the
group, which they're calling alarmed.
506
:There are people who are concerned.
507
:Some cautious, some disengaged,
some doubtful, and some dismissive.
508
:And I'll include a link in the
show notes for the online version
509
:of, of this online summary.
510
:But something that you just
said made me, uh, think of
511
:this one point in this article.
512
:In this article, they make a point
that Americans have values that they
513
:have in common, but they haven't
yet connected it to climate change.
514
:And that is part of the,
um, the disconnect between
515
:the, the different groups.
516
:There's a wonderful, uh, short little
video on the website that if you ask,
517
:where they make the point where if you ask
different groups, different people, what
518
:they think about clean energy and reducing
pollution and all these types of things,
519
:they are, are in agreement of, with that.
520
:But not everyone has, um, uh, Linked
it necessarily to this topic that
521
:there is enough, uh, a difference
of opinion, that the communication
522
:goes sideways at one point.
523
:And so what did you observe
when you were in GLA Glasgow?
524
:Did you have the opportunity to engage
with people who maybe had opposing
525
:viewpoints to those who were at the event?
526
:So.
527
:No, people in glass, people who came
to the COP26 that I encountered were
528
:there because they are, they did
everything they could to get to a
529
:global event that's all about saving
the world around climate change.
530
:And however, there was a huge
delegation of people from the oil
531
:and gas industry at the COP26.
532
:And that made national news as well.
533
:And I think those folks might have
been in different meetings than I was.
534
:Although I did not meet those people,
um, directly or I don't, I did
535
:not know that they, who they were.
536
:I think in the work that we are
doing here in the United States with
537
:these leaders in climate education,
climate change education, who are.
538
:Part of the environmental education
community, we, over and over, when
539
:the conversation comes up about how
do you teach people that don't even
540
:believe, it's like, we don't even,
we don't have that conversation.
541
:Don't give that conversation much
play, because when we look at that Yale
542
:study that you're referring to, the Six
Americas, If we add all five categories
543
:together that are, all the five categories
that are concerned about climate change
544
:at some level, the only, it's less than
10 percent of Americans who don't think
545
:this is happening or don't want to believe
that it is, and yet they're the loudest.
546
:And so there's a silent majority.
547
:And I think as environmental educators,
we have to remember that and we have
548
:to teach to the majority of people.
549
:And the more we even create a space
for discussion that it is it or
550
:isn't it happening, we're just.
551
:Back, we're backpedaling and we're
spinning our wheels and we're not
552
:allowing the whole thing to move forward.
553
:And so we as environmental educators,
I think need to be spending our time
554
:making those connections so that
people understand that public health
555
:and the incredible numbers of people
that are dealing with asthma or not
556
:having access to clean drinking water.
557
:Because of all the reasons, and in these
big cities in America, or even rural
558
:communities, it's everywhere, that there's
relationships between these very real,
559
:in your face circumstances in your home,
that are connected, they're caused by
560
:the collective impacts of climate change.
561
:And so I think that's where
we have a huge opportunity and
562
:responsibility as educators.
563
:Is to edge to draw those connections
because like you said, that's where
564
:there's the, there's this major
disconnect and, and a lot of that is
565
:fear based people don't want to believe.
566
:In something that is really scary,
because it is, and it is scary, but I
567
:don't, or they don't want to accept it.
568
:I don't think we can actually talk
about this issue as believing or not.
569
:I think that's, that's like
believing in gravity or something.
570
:Um, it's accepting that it's
happening and naming it.
571
:And, um, and I think that's, that's
where we have to move forward
572
:together as educators, as trainers,
as climate empowerment professionals.
573
:So climate education is more than
data and economics, it's conversation
574
:with your neighbors, right, and with
others and others in your community.
575
:How about, it's also a
science communication issue.
576
:Did you happen to.
577
:pick up on how people from all
different countries do science
578
:communication in their communities?
579
:I didn't actually see much
of that side of things.
580
:I think the, probably if it had been
10 years ago, or even five years ago,
581
:that probably would have been the
central message was because of the
582
:data, climate change is happening.
583
:And I think at this point,
because the elevated urgency
584
:and emergency of climate change.
585
:I get a sense that the focus is
on climate justice and that, and
586
:that includes everything from
storytelling, like, I mean, how do
587
:we, how do we teach climate justice?
588
:We teach it through things like
storytelling, and we teach it through
589
:case studies, and we teach it through
using things like deliberative
590
:conversations, and looking at things
from multi stakeholder perspectives,
591
:and we make sure that we're presenting
the issue of climate change as a
592
:complex, nuanced, complicated thing.
593
:And it's not a one side of
the table versus another.
594
:I don't think debate is a very good tool
for teaching because it encourages that
595
:somebody's right and somebody's wrong.
596
:Whereas I don't think in this
work of climate change solutions.
597
:There necessarily are always going to
be rights and wrongs if there's a whole
598
:lot of it depends and it's nuanced
and it's unique to the place where
599
:it is, and it is place based, right?
600
:And so what I'm dealing with right
here in my community in the mountains
601
:of Colorado is very different than
what people are experiencing and
602
:dealing with in inner city Los Angeles.
603
:And so I think.
604
:Yes, we, the science, the process of
science is what I think is most important
605
:that we as environmental educators are
teaching so that we're teaching the
606
:skills of a scientist or teaching the
skills of how to investigate an issue,
607
:both from a stakeholder perspective
as well as from a empirical data
608
:perspective, and then combining that.
609
:But that process of science, that
process of asking questions and
610
:figuring out what people have done
before, and what do we know from
611
:their research and their experience?
612
:And then how do we
formulate new questions?
613
:And then how do we test those questions?
614
:And then how do we ask for more input?
615
:And, and I think, and then how do
we actually read data and have data
616
:literacy and teaching people data
literacy and how to read data in a
617
:way that is a, um, critical thinker.
618
:and knowing how to ask
better questions around data.
619
:I think that's the part of science that's
really important around when we are
620
:teaching about climate change because
then we can apply that to wherever we
621
:happen to be or at different scales.
622
:The scale of my neighborhood versus
the The entire metropolitan area of
623
:Seattle, I mean, that's let alone,
you know, the entire bio region of the
624
:Rocky Mountains or whatever it may be.
625
:And so being able to have these convert,
these skills to be able to understand
626
:things at different scales is a huge
skill that we can be teaching people.
627
:And I don't, and I say people,
because this is not just about kids.
628
:This is about all of us.
629
:We all need to be taught.
630
:and encouraged to improve in the
skills of scientific thinking.
631
:So I didn't see a whole lot of data.
632
:I didn't see a whole lot of graphs.
633
:I didn't see a whole lot of
typical, the typical climate change
634
:graph while I was in Glasgow.
635
:I saw artwork.
636
:I saw poets.
637
:I saw people telling stories through
megaphones, people telling stories
638
:through Sitting together and having
conversations, I saw some theater,
639
:like stand up comedy performances.
640
:I saw a hundred, over a hundred
thousand people walking down the
641
:streets of Glasgow in the pouring
rain, and I was part of that.
642
:And that was, that's what I saw.
643
:Sounds like a rich experience.
644
:Absolutely.
645
:In all levels.
646
:Yeah.
647
:Yeah.
648
:Wonderful.
649
:Wonderful.
650
:What's next for you in terms
of wild rose education and your
651
:climate work and your water work?
652
:What's next?
653
:Well, I have been telling the world
that I'm more of a climate educator.
654
:That's more of the.
655
:How I describe myself, because
that means everything, because
656
:everything is a climate issue.
657
:Um, I don't know if everybody interprets
it that way, but, you know, I, I plan to
658
:continue to be an advocate for climate
change education and training and climate
659
:empowerment at a community level with
this work with the USACE coalition.
660
:As well as anything and everything
that comes with that, but
661
:really being an advocate for the
opportunity for climate empowerment.
662
:So that's one big bucket of
things that I'm working on.
663
:I'm also, um, committed to
continuing to do, to provide and
664
:design and facilitate professional
development workshops for educators.
665
:both formal and non formal educators
in so many different capacities through
666
:partnering with universities and
partnering with the Colorado Alliance
667
:for Environmental Education and, and
really helping to design those programs
668
:as well as facilitate them really well.
669
:And then I'm also, my third bucket
of what it means to be a climate
670
:educator or is that I'm still
very involved with and continue.
671
:to be very excited about my
climate science work that I
672
:get to do at the Arctic Ocean.
673
:Just this week, I found out that the
National Science Foundation has lifted
674
:the quarantine rules for Northern Alaska.
675
:And so I will be traveling with the
International Arctic Buoy Program
676
:scientists team in late March.
677
:Up to Utiagvik, Alaska, which is
the northernmost point of the United
678
:States, almost the northernmost
point of North America, but we'll
679
:be spending our time working on
environmental sensors on the ocean.
680
:On the ice that measure weather and
climate data and that trajectory
681
:that will continue as long as I
want to be involved, it sounds like.
682
:So those 3 big things, climate science,
climate education through teacher
683
:professional, you know, educator,
professional development, and then just
684
:continuing to be part of the advocacy of.
685
:around making sure that climate
education is even a possibility
686
:for people and having access.
687
:And so those are my three
big buckets in for right now.
688
:It's pretty exciting work.
689
:It is exciting and I'm so excited
to hear that your trip to Alaska,
690
:you get to, it's still a go because
it was so abruptly disrupted.
691
:I've been anticipating it for two
years and I'm a little hesitant to
692
:believe it's really going to happen,
but I think it might actually happen.
693
:And so, travel to Utiagvik,
Alaska in late March.
694
:And this is all with Polar Trek,
which is a program that the National
695
:Science Foundation funds to pair
educators with science teams.
696
:And so two years ago, I got selected
for that, for the Polar Trek program.
697
:And then of course we've been.
698
:Laying low with COVID, and now we get to
go, and then my science team will also
699
:go back to the Arctic Ocean in late June,
but from the Canadian side of things.
700
:And so, everybody's welcome and encouraged
to follow along this expedition, and
701
:you can find the information on my
website, but I will also make sure
702
:those end up in the show notes as well.
703
:Yes, absolutely.
704
:So, where can people find you online?
705
:So, Wildrose Education is
the name of my business.
706
:So, wildroseeducation.
707
:com is easy to find.
708
:And I just recently have updated
the website with an Arctic section
709
:and a climate change section.
710
:So, you can see a few things there
and maybe be inspired as fellow
711
:Environmental educators who are listening.
712
:I know you are.
713
:I know you are environmental
educators and reach out to me
714
:like phone calls are priceless.
715
:And maybe we can collaborate on something.
716
:And I've been known to have phone
calls with people or zoom calls, just
717
:because we're not having those coffee
meetings at conferences where we just
718
:bump into each other in the hallway.
719
:And so we have to really intentionally.
720
:Make those opportunities happen and I'm
committed to that and it takes time,
721
:but it's worth it because relationships
are what make everything work
722
:To learn more about Sarah and to
explore COP 26 Wildrose education and
723
:the Polar Trek program more thoroughly
visit the show notes at talaterra.
724
:com Thank you for joining
us today See you next time.
725
:Talaterra is a podcast for and
about independent educators
726
:working in natural resource fields
and environmental education.
727
:If you enjoyed this episode, please
share it with friends and colleagues.
728
:Thank you so much for joining us today.
729
:This is Tonya Marion.
730
:You've been listening to Carbon
Sessions, a podcast with carbon
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734
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736
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740
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