Episode 176
Private Jet, Flying Airplanes and Transportation Systems
Episode Summary: This episode started as an exploration on the dichotomy between celebrity activism and personal lifestyle choices, particularly focusing on key influencers’ environmental efforts versus their use of private jets.
It debates whether such actions make celebrities hypocrites or if their broader impact justifies these choices. The discussion also touches on the effectiveness of carbon offsets and alternatives to flying, highlighting the complexities and personal decisions involved in addressing climate change.
The conversation then extends to systemic issues like transportation infrastructure and personal habits, emphasizing collective action over individual perfection.
Article in the New York Times After Refusing to Fly, Climate Researcher Loses His Job
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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Jenn Swanson, Tonya Downing and Kristina Horning.
Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France.
From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves.
Tonya is from Durham in North Carolina, she is involved in Personality-driven digital marketing for small businesses in the US.
Kristina has a background in architecture and engineering. Currently in Prague (that it is where she is originally from) and her base is US
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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.
Transcript
Hi, I'm Christina.
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:I'm from Prague.
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:Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.
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:Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.
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:Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.
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:Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.
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:Welcome to Carbon Sessions.
8
:A podcast with Carbon Conversations
for every day with everyone
9
:from everywhere in the world.
10
:In our conversations, we share ideas,
perspectives, questions, and things we
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:can actually do to make a difference.
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:So don't be shy and join our Carbon
Sessions because it's not too late.
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:Hi, I'm Christina.
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:Hi, I'm Jen.
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:Hi, I'm Tanya.
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:Hi, I'm Leakey.
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:I would like to discuss a very interesting
topic, and this is something that is
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:very dear to my mind because I'm a
very, very big fan of Leonardo DiCaprio,
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:even since he was on the Titanic.
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:I mean, I was young, but yeah,
so I've been a very, very
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:big fan of his ever since.
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:And the past few years, he is
very well known for being a
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:very active climate activist.
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:He has a couple of NGOs, I think, and
he raised a lot of money, and he does
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:films and documentary on climate change
and environmental issues in general.
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:But he has been called out as a
hypocrite sometimes because he
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:sometimes flies on private jets.
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:And I think it's, I don't
know, is he a hypocrite?
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:I don't know.
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:I don't know what to think about it.
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:And so that's why today we're going to
talk about Private Jet, Lang Private Jet.
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:I've been a fan of his since he was in
What's Eating Gilbert Grape when he was
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:a teenager, which is an amazing show.
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:And then I just watched Killers of
the Flower Moon, uh, two nights ago.
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:What a show fan as well.
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:And yeah, I wonder about that, you know,
sometimes I wonder if it's safety, if
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:it's efficiency, if it's anonymity.
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:If it's just easier than getting
stopped 5, 000 times by adoring fans.
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:I wonder if there are balances in
the lives of some of these people
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:who are climate conscious to offset.
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:Um, so I have lots of wonderings,
no answers, lots of wondering.
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:Yeah.
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:So I, I think about this too, Nikki.
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:I think it's a really nuanced conversation
because their safety is maybe in play.
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:And.
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:Does it even make sense
for them to fly commercial?
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:Uh, you know, we see people on
flights bullying flight attendants.
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:They're the people that are
supposed to be on the plane.
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:Imagine if a celebrity was on your
plane whose political standings
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:you didn't agree with or something.
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:, not necessarily us that we would
point, but just, you know, you
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:could see that somebody that
may be a fear in their mind.
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:I don't know.
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:Why do we care that some
celebrities fly on private jet?
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:Why do we even care about that?
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:There's even, I think it's a student or
something, who has um, who has a website
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:or a Twitter thread where he tracks the
cerebral palsy's private jet journeys.
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:So why do people care so much about
cerebral palsy's flying on private jets?
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:I think that they're just, they're in
the public eye, you know, they've got
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:a massive boweling, they've got fans,
they've got platforms, social media
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:platforms, so they're just very visible.
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:, so we kind of look to them, especially
when they're some of the top polluters in
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:the world, just with their private jets.
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:So I think, yeah, \ there's a
lot of pressure because of that.
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:And people care what
they eat for breakfast.
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:So that's true.
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:I think also it's the climate change
is such a large issue and picking up
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:one simple thing that is trackable.
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:And that can be shown very easily
through numbers, how much pollution,
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:what will happen if we stop that.
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:That for people, that's kind of an in
a way crutch, it's like, okay, at least
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:I can do something with this big issue.
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:And, uh, might be misguided, but, uh,
might be there, okay, at least something.
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:At least give out their information.
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:So I think it's also a
little bit of the panic.
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:What can I do?
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:How can I change this?
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:But also I think that celebrities have
such a big, immense power of influence
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:on people's decision and action
that somehow it's their duty to be.
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:You know, to behave and be, be the
right guy and play the right role.
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:And so I guess that we expect celebrities
to be perfect in every single way, right?
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:But it's hard.
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:So this way they're not perfect.
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:That way it's like, Oh, they're humans.
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:They do something that is not okay.
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:And some of them are vegetarian or
vegan and have made other choices.
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:Yeah, definitely.
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:And, you know, a lot of them
will buy carbon offsets.
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:I know that Taylor Swift does, she buys
double the carbon offsets, but that's also
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:a very complicated topic, you know, on
if they actually are helping the earth.
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:You know, there's, there's different
levels of quality in carbon offsets.
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:I read that she could have bought
a single carbon offset for 1.
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:50, and so that's likely very
low quality carbon offset.
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:So it would kind of be on her to look
at the projects they're doing and
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:find high quality project to support.
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:Did you explain that with one
tweet, she managed to get 50
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:million people registered to vote?
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:Yes.
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:I think it was during a recent election,
presidential election in the US, and
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:she sent out one Instagram post simply
asking people to register to vote.
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:And she got 50 million young people
registered, which is huge because there's
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:a big worry about them not registering
to vote, the younger generation.
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:Maybe also there's, uh, looking at
other artists, how they deal with the
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:issues of their travels and concerts.
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:And we don't talk much about people
who are trying to manage, uh, all,
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:everything that comes to mind.
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:With the concert and travel and people
buying tickets and people's behavior
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:during the concert and after concert.
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:So, like, I think YouTube
does, makes an effort.
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:I think there was
Coldplay, uh, in the tour.
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:I think it was last year or
two years ago in the tour.
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:They have, like, a whole website for,
to, you know, to mitigate the impact of,
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:of the carbon footprint of the concert.
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:And they have some very funky things like,
you know, um, I think there was a dance
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:floor and on the dance floor, the energy
produced by people dancing on dance floor,
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:it goes back to the, you know, to the
light and it's, I mean, , it's not a lot
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:of energy, I assume, because it's, uh, I
think there's a lot of losses along the
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:way and, um, and I think that this kind
of concert requires a lot of energy, a lot
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:of lights, but you know, it's a good sign.
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:And I think they try to do a lot of things
like, you know, work with a sustainable or
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:certified, uh, suppliers wherever they go.
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:And they have, um, I think they also
try to have minimal things that they
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:have to move from one site to another.
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:And I assume that they
don't fly private jet.
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:I assume that they buy commercial flights.
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:I'm not sure about that, , um, There
are some artists that are doing
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:things in the right direction as well.
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:There's a whole movement called the
No Fly Movement also, where people,
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:artists of all kinds and regular
people are taking alternative methods
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:of getting from place to place.
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:It's a lot slower, but I
know, you know, Greta Thunberg
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:hasn't flown since about 2015.
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:I mean, she's a climate activist, but
there are others that have joined that.
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:Yeah, I think actually Seth has really
tried to limit his flying, his air travel.
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:But yeah, I think with celebrities,
well, with Coldplay, Leaky,
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:you're talking about Coldplay.
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:I think it's, there's just a lot
of shame around what, you know,
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:the carbon emissions that we
all produce and what we can do.
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:And so I think it's just good that
Coldplay is showing that they, that
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:they care, they understand that
this is an issue and they're trying.
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:Um, I think, you know, that, that's great.
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:That's all I'm asking.
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:There's also alternative
ways of producing a concert.
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:I don't know if I mentioned, but
last year I went to an ABBA concert.
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:And, uh, and they were
not performing on stage.
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:They were kind of holograms.
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:They don't call it holograms
because, um, they call it,
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:uh, avatar instead of avatar.
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:They call it, and so they say it's not
holograms, but to me it's holograms.
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:But it, it was really, really
wonderful because it's like
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:they're really performing.
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:So just think of this, this kind of
concert in various parts of the world.
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:And when it becomes mainstream,
you don't need to move the big
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:infrastructure from one side to another.
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:You know, you just move
the digital part of it.
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:Uh, I think this is the
future, could be the future.
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:Yeah, it's hard sometimes, I mean,
it's hard to get from one place
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:to the next without getting on
an airplane, unless you have many
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:weeks to take the time to get there.
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:Did you read this article, it was on the
New York Times last year, I think, end
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:of last year or sometime, um, in, no, um,
sometime in September, I think, last year.
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:about a researcher, a climate
researcher, who is working in Germany.
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:He's a researcher for a university
in Germany and he's doing some
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:research and has to do some
field work in Papua New Guinea.
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:So it's really, really far, somewhere
in between Indonesia and Australia.
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:And because he's a climate researcher.
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:So he tried not to fly because obviously
it's very difficult for him to fly.
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:It's not good for climate change to fly.
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:So on the leg from Germany to
Papua New Guinea, he decided
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:not to fly as much as possible.
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:So he, cars and trains, and I think at
the very end he had to fly twice and
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:the whole journey took him 35 days.
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:So, , he did everything he could not
to fly, and so it took him 35 days.
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:So he did his field work, his research,
and on his way back, he wanted to do the
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:same, but his university said, Oh, you
have to be at work by, I can't remember
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:exactly, like in a week or something like
that, but because he doesn't want to fly.
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:So there's no way he could
reconcile, you know, what he
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:really believed in with his work.
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:And so the university fired him, and he
said, No, I won't fly because it's um, I
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:will be a hypocrite if I keep on flying.
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:And the university, it's, it's completely
insane because there's nothing I
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:cannot do during my journey back to
Germany, uh, on the boat or whatever.
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:I still can't do my research.
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:It's not a good reason for firing me.
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:So, I don't know what you think
about it, because this actually,
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:this article was sent to me by
one of my colleagues for work.
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:We do need to fly sometimes, and this
specific colleague needs to fly a lot.
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:So he asked me, what
do you think about it?
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:So my question to you is,
what do you think about it?
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:, that's a very tricky one.
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:One of the arguments I've heard
is that the plane is going there
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:anyway, and it shouldn't go empty.
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:It should go as full as possible.
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:I mean, that's an argument I've heard.
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:I don't know if that's an excuse.
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:If people weren't booking the flights,
would they cancel the flights?
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:That'd be great.
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:Or what's their threshold?
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:It goes by weight as well.
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:So is that true that the more
people sitting on a plane, the more
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:efficient it is, or is it not true?
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:I don't know the mechanics of it.
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:I think also would be questioned when he
took all these cars and trains, whatever
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:he was Doing, unless he was biking,
what is the print all together in those
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:35 days compared to the one flight?
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:I thought that would be
interesting comparison.
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:My guess is that it
will be lower than five.
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:Yeah.
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:I don't know because it's so many days.
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:I think somebody was looking into
that, not only the footprint of much
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:longer journey, but also Looking at
the keeping the old car versus buying
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:new car, what's the footprint in that?
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:Is it going to balance?
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:It's not a simple question to answer.
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:A couple of weeks ago, I
attended a three day conference.
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:It was all day Friday, all day
Saturday, and half of Sunday.
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:And it was a conference that used to
be in person, and it used to be one
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:where people flew from all over the
country, well, all over countries to
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:join because there were people from
Australia and from India and from U.
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:S.
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:and Canada.
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:Um, it's an international
storytelling conference.
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:Since COVID, they've done
everything virtually, and you
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:don't have to go anywhere.
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:And there were probably at least
a hundred people on this platform.
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:And it was, you know, a lot of time and
a lot of effort saved and a lot of carbon
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:by everybody coming onto this platform
and doing the conference virtually.
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:And I wonder how many Organizations have
found that they get more people able to
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:join when they don't have to put out all
the time and the effort and the money to
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:travel, something I was thinking about.
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:Yeah, I think that they need to rethink
their business model, how they work.
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:And actually, yes, maybe they could get
two different kind of participations
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:or two different conferences.
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:Yeah, because in some, in some instances
or in some ways, I'm, I'm very much like,
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:And in real, real life type of person.
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:I'd much rather be face to face with
people, you know, snail mail versus
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:email, you know, I prefer snail mail.
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:Yeah, there's the question of
like, quality of life too, um,
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:with everything becoming virtual.
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:I just think it's so complicated.
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:And it's so emotional.
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:I think there's just this tendency
to want to game or like, try to
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:reduce it to numbers and like,
Well, if you've done this, but you
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:haven't done this, I don't know.
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:I think it's such a systems problem
that it's, it's hard for the
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:individual to really impact much.
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:Yeah, I absolutely agree with you
because, um, the world or people
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:expect us to be perfect in every
single way and everything we do.
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:And as you said, it's not very fair
to judge people based on one single
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:action or something as you do.
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:Because the system is not designed
for, you know, um, earlier, Christina
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:was talking about, what about if we
have, a flight that emit less carbon?
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:The system doesn't want
that at the moment.
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:Um, I was just listening to the
financial results of one, the big
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:competitor of Boeing, , which is
European, it's called EADS, and
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:so they have sold a lot of planes.
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:Those old planes, they are not into
new planes because you know, it
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:costs them a lot of money and they
don't want to invest in new planes.
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:So sometimes we do have to fly.
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:I mean, yeah, my family is scattered
all around and I have to fly for work
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:because if I don't do that, I will limit
my chances, my ability, my network.
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:And also.
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:It's like, you know, I'm not
doing a service to me and I'm not
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:doing service for the work I'm
doing because I will be limited.
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:My circle of influence, you
know, my, my network, you know,
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:the people I meet, I talk to.
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:And so yes, it's not great, but
sometimes you have no choice, I think.
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:Yeah, I think it comes to looking
at are we doing the extremes, no
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:flying or flying whenever I feel
like, and maybe coming in the middle.
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:And go, okay, how can I plan
my year or my connection?
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:Are there any ways not flying
and doing meeting on internet?
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:Or is it really important for me to
fly and meet people in person instead
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:of going, okay, I'm not flying.
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:That's it.
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:Or it's too complicated.
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:I don't want to think about it.
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:I'll fly when I need to and forget.
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:Me planning ahead or something.
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:So I think coming in this kind of middle,
I said, like shopping, when people
280
:want to save money shopping, they wait
for some sales or for a certain time
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:of the year when they buy big items.
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:I think we can do the same
thing with flying and manage.
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:It takes a little bit longer, a
little bit focus, but, uh, at least
284
:we can move towards something.
285
:That's a really great point
and a great distinction.
286
:I think just to bring it back to
the celebrities, their air travel,
287
:I was reading that one person took
a jet 37 minutes, which emitted
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:like three tons of CO2, which is an
insane amount, like the amount that
289
:one person may emit in this year.
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:Supposed to, supposed to emit in the year.
291
:Yeah.
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:But I mean, I think that kind of thing,
it's like, what are you doing that?
293
:I think you're right.
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:Kind of planning your year.
295
:So that limited as much as
possible limit trips like that.
296
:I know everybody's busy and
it's, it's difficult and hard
297
:to coordinate everything.
298
:Gosh, guys, I moved 13 times last
year between four countries in Europe.
299
:And we did it all my train.
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:Yeah.
301
:It was, I mean.
302
:It was horrible.
303
:It was, it was the process of us becoming
Italian residents, but I feel much
304
:better about that, especially because
Now trains are something that we can
305
:do all the time and we've gotten rid
of our two cars and we've gotten rid
306
:of like, you know, a lot of stuff.
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:So, yeah, just kind of weighing,
um, and being thoughtful and
308
:considerate about all this stuff.
309
:And also I just want to note that the
trains in Europe are electric trains.
310
:They're not using fossil fuels.
311
:Are they?
312
:All?
313
:I think most of them.
314
:I know at least in Czech, all the
train tracks have wires above.
315
:So, I'm assuming everybody
is running on electricity.
316
:So maybe not, I don't know if they're
all, but I know there's a lot of them.
317
:Yeah.
318
:I mean, the, the train system is quite
efficient in Europe, but it's still
319
:faster and cheaper sometimes to fly.
320
:That's the truth.
321
:So maybe in these areas where we don't
have to take ships or sailboats, uh,
322
:maybe, uh, Making the trains accessible
and making it so they're building
323
:tracks where you don't need to use
fossil fuels, where it's all electric.
324
:I feel like infrastructure
is there already.
325
:And it's not that much
harder to put a few holes up.
326
:I think that that would be nice.
327
:Yeah, that would be nice, but I
don't think it's that easy, really.
328
:Last summer, I bought a book, um,
well, I don't have it here, but it's,
329
:um, it's a Lonely Planet special
edition for slow travel in Europe.
330
:And so we looked at it and
we decided to go to Latvia.
331
:And so according to the book,
the public transportation
332
:system is very, very efficient.
333
:And so I wanted to go there by
boat and then train, but it was too
334
:difficult, so I had to take a plane.
335
:But I decided that once we're
there, we're going to be car free.
336
:And, um, I talked to some, to some
people there that I know that I work
337
:with, and I say, I told them about my plan
of not driving, just, relying on public
338
:transportation to go around the country.
339
:And all of them told me that, huh, you
all have , very interesting ideas, but
340
:think of Latvia, who's been part of
USSR, under invested in infrastructure.
341
:Think of all that, you know, think
of, don't make your life to harm.
342
:Uh, it just, it's not that easy,
even though Latvia has been part
343
:of the EU for some time now, but
it's not that easy to put rails or
344
:to build railroads and all that.
345
:It's just.
346
:It doesn't happen overnight,
it takes time, so.
347
:Gosh, yeah, and in the U.
348
:S., I mean, everything's so spread out.
349
:Yeah.
350
:There's no, like, real urban centers.
351
:And I think that, you know, there's this
immediacy of being able to drive your car.
352
:You can go, you know, you forgot
something at the grocery, you can go
353
:pick it up in 10 minutes in your car.
354
:That's something, like, a growing pain
that we're feeling, is that sometimes when
355
:you don't have something here, it takes
a lot of effort to go out and get it.
356
:Um, it's not immediate, it's
not convenient, so it's, it does
357
:just take a lot more planning.
358
:, But yeah, like, New York City has a
great subway system, Chicago's is okay.
359
:I lived in Chicago for a long time,
so, I mean, their subway system's
360
:not, not the greatest, but um,
at least, you know, it's there.
361
:There were times when, uh, stores
were closed on Sundays, and I wonder
362
:that having access to everything.
363
:It, for us, is unusual to wait
for something or plan ahead.
364
:Yeah.
365
:Uh, the rule about that
ended here in:
366
:It was called the Lord's Day Act, and it
was abolished in:
367
:ignoring it anyway, long before that.
368
:But that was when it wasn't
allowed to be open on a Sunday.
369
:So interesting.
370
:And now it's just a regular
day of the week almost.
371
:I think banks still sometimes aren't
open, but there are very few things
372
:that are not open on a Sunday anymore.
373
:But going back to our flying or not
flying, one thing I never do is that
374
:I don't tell people around me that
they are not doing the right thing.
375
:. I don't want to make them feel ashamed
of not doing the right thing because
376
:sometimes it's not their fault because
we're not in their shoes and so
377
:we don't know their circumstances.
378
:Yeah, I mean, you don't
want to discourage people.
379
:It's like, we're all kind
of just doing our best.
380
:I mean, some people aren't and they're
just completely okay in their ignorance.
381
:Um, ignorance is bliss.
382
:But I mean, when people are making an
effort or they are aware of climate
383
:issues, you don't want to discourage that.
384
:And I sometimes wonder too if there
are ways that big organizations that
385
:send their employees all over the
place can rethink that a little bit.
386
:Are there ways that you don't
have to fly so much for business?
387
:Are there different systems that
could come into place that would
388
:allow for people to travel less?
389
:Even a little bit less would
make a difference, right?
390
:I mean, yes, uh, I think with COVID,
the lockdowns, it has helped a
391
:little bit because now we used to
riffing twice, a little bit more, not
392
:twice, a little bit more, uh, before
we take a plane for work at this.
393
:I agree with the missing people.
394
:I mean, being a person.
395
:It really is different, but at what cost?
396
:Especially with all our families
spread out everywhere now.
397
:You know, it used to be that
everybody stayed in one town.
398
:And you had your grandma and your sisters
and everything right there with you.
399
:But now, you know, My sister's at
the ER, my Nana's in Tennessee, uh,
400
:Josh is in Colorado, my husband.
401
:It's just, it's kind of like hard
to know, you know, how to see
402
:people and to make it happen.
403
:I've also changed with globalization.
404
:So what should we invite them to do?
405
:I think I'm gonna try to plan
even more ahead and adjust and
406
:maybe communicate more to ask
people what their longer plan is.
407
:Um, connect with them in a ways.
408
:For instance, I have to
travel to Europe from U.
409
:S.
410
:and so I set it up that I can
see my family on the way there
411
:instead of flying straight there
and then back and back and forth.
412
:So maybe think in bigger time chunks.
413
:What about you guys?
414
:Yeah, I continue to think about do
I have to go there in person or can
415
:I do the virtual option if it's a
conference or something that, while it
416
:would be nice to be there in person,
do I need to be there in person?
417
:Sometimes the answer might be yes,
but lots of times it's probably not
418
:imperative that I'm physically there.
419
:I kind of think the same way.
420
:, for work, because sometimes it's not
absolutely necessary to be somewhere for
421
:work, and for my personal travel, for
leisure, holidays, or seeing family, I
422
:am willing, and actually I'm doing it,
exploring alternative ways of traveling,
423
:which doesn't require flying, and it's.
424
:Very fun.
425
:And, uh, yeah, it just, it, it
requires a lot of planning, really.
426
:, I'm already planning my, my summer
holiday because I'm planning not to fly
427
:and do everything by train and boat.
428
:But the capacity, the capacity
of this kind of means of
429
:transportation is very, very limited.
430
:So you really have to plan in advance.
431
:For me, we moved to a location
where we could walk everywhere.
432
:I, very infrequently take the train.
433
:Um, there's a tram system
that runs here in Milan.
434
:We just do a lot of walking.
435
:And I mean, I know that that's
not possible for everybody, but I
436
:think running ahead and making sure
that, you know, when you're at the
437
:grocery, you're thinking long term.
438
:So that you don't have to
order those groceries in a
439
:couple of days or run back out.
440
:Where we're moving to, we're
going to be close to a train.
441
:It's called the West Coast Express.
442
:It only goes into town once a day and
comes back out the other way once a day.
443
:It's not the SkyTrain or the subway
like that we have in the city.
444
:But it's there, and I think if you get on
it at the right time, it can take you to
445
:the SkyTrain or the electric train system.
446
:But it will be a lot closer, because
where I live now, you have to have a car.
447
:There's not an easy way to get anywhere.
448
:So we're moving closer into
where there will be some options.
449
:And one of the hopes is that when
one of our cars dies, our hope is
450
:that we can get an electric bike.
451
:For errands and things like that because
it's a smaller town and it'll be, I
452
:think it'll be easier to get around
and find what we need without having
453
:to get into a car every single time.
454
:That's interesting what you said
because I just realized when I talk
455
:to people, a lot of them , when they
are moving, , before it was job.
456
:Close to the family, uh, community.
457
:But now people are starting to talk
about exactly what she said about
458
:the travel, about ability to walk to
grocery store and to be in places.
459
:Where they don't have to leave
all the time to live well.
460
:I cannot even imagine living in
places like that because I've
461
:always lived in big cities.
462
:So I cannot imagine a life where I have
to take a car for whatever I need to
463
:do and like when you say that there's a
train that goes once a day To the city
464
:center and did you see my face when you
say that if you can get to the SkyTrain?
465
:Then you can go all over
the place every few minutes.
466
:It's a normal subway system.
467
:Well, it's elevated rapid transit So it's
on a platform above and then sometimes
468
:it goes underground But most of the
time it's above and you can get to the
469
:airport You can get all over the place
But the other one is an actual train
470
:like a train track an actual real train
That goes, uh, downtown and it's quite
471
:good because it goes from quite far
away from Vancouver and takes people
472
:all the way into the city and it only
stops about four times or five times.
473
:But once a day.
474
:So you, you really need to
plan your day very, very well.
475
:Well it's for, for people who
are working downtown, who like
476
:commuting to work kind of thing.
477
:I know, it's kind of old,
it's not as fancy as Europe,
478
:but Oh, I didn't say that!
479
:No.
480
:No.
481
:I often envy the transit systems there
and how everybody can just walk places.
482
:In big cities, because if you go
to like small villages in, in lots
483
:of parts of Europe, it's the same.
484
:They don't even have trains
or public transportation, so.
485
:Right.
486
:Right.
487
:I just realized that, uh, when you
guys talk about transportation.
488
:In Europe, it takes about 10 minutes,
5 minutes to go to a grocery store.
489
:And if I, I'm in Montana right now,
and if I have to go get groceries,
490
:I would have to walk 4 hours and 10
minutes to get the grocery, which
491
:would be about an hour on a bicycle.
492
:I realize, yeah, it's, uh, the
world's for different, different
493
:experiences, different needs.
494
:Yeah, but in Europe, you live in the city.
495
:Yeah.
496
:Yeah.
497
:Yeah.
498
:I think it's a matter of the size
of, um, I mean, it's, it's a,
499
:whether it's a density, is it a
city or not in a city, obviously in
500
:Montana, you don't live in the city.
501
:So it's a different lifestyle.
502
:Yeah.
503
:We started with planes.
504
:We started with private jets and then we
talk about planes and now we're talking
505
:about commuting, like daily commute.
506
:Walking for hours.
507
:On the other side.
508
:Yeah, but it's good to talk
about those things sometimes.
509
:Thank you for this conversation.
510
:Thank you guys.
511
:Thanks everyone and thanks
for coming to join us, Tanya.
512
:Yeah, and oh my gosh,
thank you guys so much.
513
:Bye.
514
:Bye guys.
515
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