Episode 169

[RERUN] Toothpaste, Dentistry and Plastics

Episode Summary: This conversation is a rerun of an episode we initially published in July 2022. We talked about how taking care of our teeth can impact the environment and how we can do better

Jenn, Leekei and Rob discussed the environmental impact of taking care of our teeth as well as plastics contained in toothpaste, dental floss and toothbrushes and alternative solutions to reduce the daily release of microplastics in waterways.

Rob shared his experience of implementing change in his dental practice by using more sustainable equipment and consumables, and advocacy

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

You can find out more on page 78, 79 and 162 of the Carbon Almanac and on the website you can tap the footnotes link and type in 027, 346 and 256

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Jenn Swanson, Leekei Tang and Rob Slater.

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and Community Connector, helping people help themselves.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and a podcaster from Paris, France.

Rob is from Birmingham in the UK, he is an orthodontist, triathlete, coach and podcaster.

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Transcript
Leekei:

Hi, I'm leaky.

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JENN: Hi, I'm Jen.

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Leekei: Hi, Jen.

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What are we going to talk about today?

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JENN: We're going to talk about

toothbrushes and dental floss.

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And actually, I think we should

talk about the industry of

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dentistry and the planet today.

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Leekei: And so our entry point is plastic.

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JENN: Yes,

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absolutely.

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And all the plastics, and we have

a special guest with us today.

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Who's not really a guest because he's part

of the carbon Almanac and doing a whole

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bunch of stuff behind the scenes, but

he happens to be an expert in this area.

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So let's welcome, Rob,

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ROB: Hi, Hi.

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JENN: should we say Dr.

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Rob?

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ROB: It can be Dr.

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Rob.

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Yeah.

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JENN: Tell us what you do, Rob.

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, ROB: I'm an orthodontist.

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Uh, so I treat, , adults and children.

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So my main role is, uh,

straightening teeth.

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We also get involved with,

uh, tooth whitening as well.

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And I've been an orthodontist since 1997.

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So it's my 25th anniversary this year.

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JENN: Congrats.

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So

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what is the biggest thing that

you're noticing and what is your

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pet peeve in this whole thing?

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ROB: I suppose one of my things that

worries me most , is the toothbrush

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issue because people are changing their

toothbrush on a, quite a regular basis.

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, , some people are changing their

toothbrush every three months, every

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six months and, that's needed.

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So there's a need for people

to keep , their mouth healthy.

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And so that's my prime role, but,

uh, I feel terrible that, uh, this.

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So many toothbrushes

are made outta plastic.

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That's the bristles , and the handles.

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And there are, there

are alternatives there.

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, and so bamboo is one of the, , materials

that's used a lot in toothbrushes.

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And I, I would like to have

some part in changing that.

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Uh, but having invested in some

bamboo toothbrushes, there isn't

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really that much of a market for them.

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So people.

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Necessarily buying them.

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So we do point it out.

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And, we mention it to our patients and

slowly people are starting , to buy them.

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But, if you buy toothbrushes,

even if you buy bamboo ones, you

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still have to be careful because.

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If you want to completely get

rid of plastics, sometimes the

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bristles are still made of plastic,

even with the BR bamboo handles.

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And sometimes the, the bristles

are made out of animal hair as well.

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So that's another thing , to look out

for, and it's not always made that

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obvious in the product information.

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So, , again at the moment, I think

that, , there, there are companies

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doing these things, but until it

really scales up, uh, we have a

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problem of supply and demand really.

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JENN: I always use bamboo toothbrushes.

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And I also use that dental lace

that you, you pop the refill

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into a glass, uh, little.

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Holder that has the,

the cutter for the lace.

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and so when I go to the dentist,

I always, say, no thanks when they

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try to give me stuff at the end

of the appointment, because I.

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Getting it myself, but it's a lot

more expensive, you know, when you

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can get a free toothbrush and dental

floss from the dentist at your six

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month or eight month appointment,

, it's more expensive to spend $5 or

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whatever it is on a bamboo toothbrush.

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And then the dental lace and the dental

lace is also, it breaks really easily.

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So there are definitely some

areas that could be improved in

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the, the natural replacements.

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I think.

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ROB: And I, I think that if patients

want to do something that they

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can talk to their dentist and

say, why don't you provide these?

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And just put that bit of information

inside the dentist's head to make

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them start thinking about, Hmm, maybe

I should look and see what is there,

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but it comes down again to, um, a

supply and demand thing that if.

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I was actually offered by a

company to have some bamboo

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brushes at one pound each, but I

would have to buy 10,000 of them.

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and storage wise,

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we could realize stuck for years and

years if we weren't selling them.

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So it just, it, it just didn't

make sense to do that, but, uh,

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we are waiting and I think it it's

a reasonable thing at some stage.

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If there is the market.

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Leekei: But what about the,

the regulations because , it's

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a non fact that it's made of

plastic and it's not recyclable.

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And so is there any lobby that

works towards, , making it illegal?

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ROB: Well, one thing that is happening is

that, uh, Colgate or a company in the UK

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at the moment are they, they do something

where you can have bins and people will

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put the toothbrushes into the bins and

then they're taken away and made into a

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park bench or something of that, kind.

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And I think that could be played with.

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, this park bench has been made

by recycled toothbrushes.

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And you're sitting amongst nature.

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That makes a lot of sense.

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Cause it's reminding you of, the

environment at the same time.

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And one of the other things we've

tried is to get one of these

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recycling bins in our practice.

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But, uh, we were told because there were.

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Council, I think there was a council,

, involvement with it that, uh, they'd

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already got one in their local library.

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And so we couldn't have one . So again,

we we're in a very good place, you

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know, we could actually make something

of it, see patients on a regular basis.

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And so again, it's um, if companies

are prepared, then I'm sure if, um,

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dentists become more aware of this

issue, uh, that they can be a, a part

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of the solution, but it's taking time.

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I think that's the.

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Leekei: Is there an alt to toothbrushes

because I saw, I see ads where,

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you know, you can like some gums

or something that you can just

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chew without having to brush a tip.

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that, does it work?

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ROB: It probably doesn't

work quite so well.

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So it, it could be that you are taking,

\ , an element of risk and any of these new

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niche areas, uh, are often market led.

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So a company will release them in advance

of the responsible bodies, takes years

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for people to do research on things.

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So they keep chopping and changing

to make it difficult for research to

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reveal whether things work or not.

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So, uh, I, I think that one, one area.

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That I quite like is moving

towards, , toothpaste tablets.

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They're not really toothpaste, but

they're a tablet instead of, , a paste.

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Um, , the big problem with

toothpastes is that often the.

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The toothpaste itself, the tube

itself is made outta a combination.

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Sometimes plastics try to move away

from metals cuz the combination

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of metal and plastic makes them

even more difficult to recycle.

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if you've got plastics,

then rolling them up.

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There's some companies actually

even will try to design it.

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So that 10% of the toothpaste is

left in the tube that you can't get.

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BEC that 10% is wasted and all of these,

uh, toothpastes have got microplastics in.

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So we're putting these microplastics

in our mouth, which help to

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scour the surface of the enamel.

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But we then spit that into, , the.

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Water supply goes off, down, into

the water waste, , and, uh, of

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course into our rivers and streams.

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So , that's quite a worrying thing.

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And I think that if we can move

towards other forms of, um, perhaps

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toothpaste that don't have microplastics

in or, uh, toothpaste tablets, and

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that could be a good move forward,

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JENN: I was, I was shocked to learn

that not that long ago, that there were

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microplastics right in the toothpaste

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and we ordered some tooth

tablets, but they had to come

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from the UK and we're in Canada.

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It took forever to get this bottle, but

it was a great big bottle and it it's

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still going two years later or something,

but You know, then there's the whole

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question of, , you know, does it work?

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Are you supposed to have fluoride,

, like there's all those questions and

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then, um, we've tried the tooth PA

like the pace that you can buy in

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the health food store that's made

with clay and things like that.

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And, uh, and that works, but it,

again, it's more expensive than the

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ones that That are mass produced.

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That aren't good for the planet, right?

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It's the same old issue.

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ROB: yeah.

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And I think the, the they're small

companies very often, so their margins are

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much more difficult to, , , to achieve.

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And as a result, they're trying

to work around that by creating a

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subscription model for their business.

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But I contacted, um, a tablet company

a few weeks back, uh, Interested

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to find out what they offered

to the dental profession, dental

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professionals, dental practices.

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And I just haven't had a response back

and I've had that happen a few times

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over the years just don't respond.

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So I think they're clearly wanting

to go direct to the consumer

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because that's where they feel

, the proper profit is for them.

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Leekei: Yeah, but also

because, um, there's small

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companies and there's startups.

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And so this is something I see

a lot that small companies, the

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founders spend a lot of time, energy

on developing their product and

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don't really take care of sales.

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, there's different sales

channels they can get to.

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So I don't think it's because

they are not very interested.

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Maybe it's because they are

not very well organized as

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well.

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ROB: Yeah, yeah.

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That, I think that's absolutely right.

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Yeah.

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, and , some of the earlier tablets

didn't have fluoride at all.

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And I.

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I always feel that fluoride , is

a good thing , to have in

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a, a tooth cleaning product.

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And, um, if people are worried

about fluoride, I often

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say, well, do you drink tea?

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Cause most people do.

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, the average tea leaf

contains, , a thousand parts.

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Perme fluoride, just

the same as toothpaste.

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So there's a huge

amount of fluoride in it.

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It does favorably suck up fluoride.

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And although that isn't available

fluoride to your mouth, when you drink

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tea, , there is a reasonable amount in

terms of the volume you're drinking.

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So you.

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Could probably end up taking in more

fluoride per year by drinking tea

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than you would buy, using toothpaste

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JENN: There you go, you

learn something every day.

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I didn't know that

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Leekei: Yeah.

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But , since you, mentioned that

there's small plastic, like small

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PLA pieces of plastic in toothpaste.

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I looked at , all my toothpaste tube

and none of them mentioned that.

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So can you confirm that it's an old

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toothpaste that we used.

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ROB: There's usually something like,

um, polyethylene or something of those,

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those sorts of, uh, words that are used.

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So it'll be a chemical name that's

used, so they won't say microplastics.

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Um, but it'll be the word if you

see the word poly and, uh, YL,

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those are telling you that there's

some kind of plastic ingredient in.

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Leekei: But that's,

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that's really bad because there's there

no way that microplastic can be recycled.

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ROB: it's a little like, uh, people

use the term CI rate instead of

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citric acid, because they don't

want, they want to hide the idea

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that there's an acid in something.

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, so you, , you kind of just use your

terminology it's there, but yeah,

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you've gotta know what you're looking.

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JENN: So what can the regular person

do um, is is there a better way to

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talk to your, your dental provider

about this, uh, as a patient, um,

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like what, what can each

person listening to this take

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action on.

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ROB: I think there are.

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Different levels.

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Uh, us as patients and I talk

about me cleaning my teeth.

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I can make a move to

using toothpaste tablets.

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If I do that, then I will use,

uh, one with fluoride in it.

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Um, there are, uh, flosses that, uh, are

made out of corn starch and corn fiber.

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So those are biodegradable and,

uh, . , toothbrushes that we can get,

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which don't, uh, don't use plastic

or, or at least if you, you can

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move in the right direction and not

use as much plastic talking to your

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dentist or your orthodontist about it.

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And it, again, we go back to the

carbon monk and their children's ARMAC

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and how, uh, we want to encourage

children to talk to their parents.

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And if, if children are,

um, uh, thinking about this.

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You know, they can talk to their

parents and that helps with the family.

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And this can all be raised

with the orthodontist as well.

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So it is a conversation, isn't it?

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The dentists, I think, , have to make

a decision on how they use plastics.

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And so for me, it's trying

to use the paper cups.

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So.

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Um, in some countries, you, you

can autoclave your, uh, glasses

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between patients, but that's

discouraged in our countries.

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So we use paper cups

rather than plastic ones.

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Think about how many patients we see.

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Yeah, that's a lot of paper cups.

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Uh, there are some plastics that we

have to use to protect ourselves.

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, but if we aren't constantly on the

lookout to try and work out ways, um, ways

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around things, , selling products like.

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These things that patients might want,

, and the industry itself, I think if

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the industry can, , start to provide

products so that, , small companies

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can, have , larger amounts bought from

these companies and then they can sell

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on so that they're using, I think often

it's easier for a company if they have

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a big, , purchase from one company

and then that company that's selling,

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a lot of other products can then sell

'em onto us, probably makes it easier.

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So bigger companies need

to have an awareness.

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I think setting

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JENN: When I worked in the hospital

system for 23 years, um, when I first

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started Everything was reusable.

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You know, we had, we didn't have

plastic, kidney basins, they were

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stainless steel and we had drap

cloths and we had, uh, cloth gowns

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with the tight cuffs and everything

got autoclaved or reused or washed.

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And, and we've really gone away from that.

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And I really hope we can start going

back to that because those things.

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As well,

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and it gave people jobs

in the washing and the

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sterilizing

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department.

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Um,

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Yeah.

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ROB: And our other thing is , the

aligner industry that's taking off.

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Um, I talk, I've talked to my colleagues

about this and I think just before

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lockdown, actually, I looked at the

figures for, uh, one of the big aligner

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companies, uh, who were, I suppose,

in their literature saying, you know,

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we've, , treated 8 million patients.

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And then I looked.

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Uh, and I thought, well,

that's how many aligners?

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The average is 25 aligners per hour.

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That's 50 aligners.

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That's, uh, 8 million a year.

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That's one centimeter.

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And I worked out how long

the aligners would go.

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And I think it was somewhere like from

Birmingham in the UK to north Africa

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every year in an these aligners.

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And of course they're, they're non

recyclable because use multiple

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types of plastic to create them.

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And so, , at the moment, the industry

is trying to create aligners that can

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be recycled, um, or ways of sending

them back so that they can be treated.

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and.

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Potentially reuse for other forms,

but at the moment, the align, the

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aligner industry is really taking off

because, , patents have, uh, have changed.

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And so it's becoming easier for

people to make their own aligners in

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house and provide them to patients.

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So it's going up rather than down.

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And I think there are other ways of

treating patients where you're not having

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to use something that's not recyclable.

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So, uh, I think align is the

right thing for some people.

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So we use them, but, uh, it's just,

I don't wanna just go down the road

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of converting my practice to just

using something that's non recyclable.

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I feel uncomfortable about that.

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JENN: it's good to hear someone in

the industry talking about this.

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I have, not, , heard

this so far, so I'm very

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happy to hear

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ROB: Well, we, we, I mean, in

dentistry, it probably, uh, and as

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these figures probably relate to

the UK, it's about 3% of the carbon

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footprint of the overall, , medicine.

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So I think there's lots that can

be done in, in medicine in general.

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Leekei: Oh,

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yes.

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Hmm.

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ROB: it's something to be

worked at that's for sure.

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Leekei: Yes, but you need to

choose what, um, What goes first,

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you know, safety or environment.

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And I think in the medical

field, it's very often is

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. Patient's safety first, right?

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ROB: well, you are, you

are absolutely right.

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And that's, I think one good way

that we could use our governing

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bodies in a, proactive way.

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So in the UK, for example, we have the

care quality commission and they can come

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around your practice and assess you and

they can literally just turn up if they

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want and they'll look through and redo.

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Critique, and this is put on a

website, so you can be really

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criticized for what you're doing.

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And there isn't anywhere in

the CQC sees inspections.

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That really looks at how green

you are or how green you are as a

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practice or how sustainable you are.

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And it, I think it would be quite a

nice thing for, the CQC to develop is.

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is.

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actually a section of the examination

to see where you are on that.

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\ what auditing are you doing on

the products that you're using?

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The whole host of things that

could be done to improve the

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regulation of the industry.

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And again, it would all make people

just more aware that, uh, this is

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an area that it doesn't need to

be looked at and is an important.

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Leekei: I used to wear contact

lenses and their dailies and I've

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been using it since I was 17, I think.

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And.

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It's, this comes in a small thing, plastic

thing, and then you there's a pill.

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And I have two eyes.

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So obviously I'm using

two every single day.

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So that's 60 a months.

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And I very quickly realized that it's

was not good for the environment.

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And even though, , Now some people

think, and I used to think that plastic

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can be recycled a hundred percent,

but even though it could be recycled,

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I just, something didn't come up.

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Right.

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So I decided to switch from my Del

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to monthly.

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Now.

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JENN: Yeah, I have monthly ones too.

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And, and I, they last a

whole lot longer than that.

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Cuz I wear my glasses a lot

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Leekei: Okay.

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I do the same thing,

but I didn't dare, just

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JENN: but you know,

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Leekei: the one.

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JENN: no, I, I, I write down

the dates, I wear them and then

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I count up a

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month and that's good.

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So they last

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probably about five months, but

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What the heck

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Leekei: Hmm.

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JENN: I was thinking as I was

taking a, one of those rapid COVID

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tests the other day, because I was

going into a healthcare facility to

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visit, um, a congregation member.

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I was looking at the plastic

that was in one of those kits.

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And I don't know if the

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kits

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are all the same,

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but you know, they come with all this

stuff, including some little holder thing.

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That's hard plastic.

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That's got all these little

holes in it and you only need

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one

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one hole to do this

thing, uh, for this test.

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And I don't know if anyone else

experienced the horror . Seeing this

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:

kit that was then just thrown right out.

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I mean, I get it.

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We have

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to do this,

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:

but at the same time, oh my goodness.

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I wonder who was inventing this and

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whether

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:

they were thinking

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:

about, you know, everyone getting

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:

these

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:

kits and using them multiple

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:

times a

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:

week.

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:

some

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:

people do I've only

ever had one because I,

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um, Ha haven't worried about testing

myself in other contexts other than

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:

going into healthcare facilities.

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:

But yeah, it was an interesting experience

and I sat there just looking at all

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this stuff, going into the garbage and

thinking, oh wow, there's so much work.

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:

We have to

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:

do

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:

ROB: yeah, yeah.

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:

With it.

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:

It's funny how.

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People were trying to, I think there

was just certainly this thought

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:

about plastics before COVID and then

suddenly COVID hit every was just

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:

covering themselves with plastic.

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:

And just though it's thrown

out the window a bit.

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:

Um, yeah.

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:

It's um, it's just, it's

a struggle, isn't it?

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:

Leekei: Yeah, I think COVID made

us live in the ocean of plastic,

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:

you know, just think of all the

masks that we use every day.

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:

And that's, there's a lot of plastic

404

:

,

in in the

405

:

masks.

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:

ROB: Yeah.

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:

Yeah.

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:

Well, fortunately my wife bought

lots of these LA, um, masks, and so

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:

we had a rack that was put by our

door so that if we forgot, we could

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:

just pick one up as we were going

out and, uh, yeah, quite like that.

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:

we, we still have to give people

plastic masks and people don't

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:

bring their own to the practice.

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:

So we are giving out these masks

and they're more of a problem.

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:

So, and again, it's not that

easy to find these things and,

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:

um, find plastic free ones.

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:

Leekei: but because you care, you're doing

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:

things differently.

418

:

ROB: Yeah, I think it's always

about moving the right direction.

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:

Isn't it?

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:

It's, uh, you can't always completely

clear the whole business of it, but if

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:

you're, if you're trying, then it's the

first step, isn't it like cycling to work.

422

:

It's like cycling to work.

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:

JENN: I

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:

wish I could

425

:

ROB: yeah, so I, I have my bike and I put

it outside the practice and we are just,

426

:

we are just having a refurb done at the

moment and I've made sure that we are

427

:

having a bike rack put into the car park.

428

:

It's only a small car park, but we'll

have more space when we've finished.

429

:

And so again, that's another

part of, you know, people can

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:

put their bikes in there and see.

431

:

This is another way of transporting

yourself around Birmingham.

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:

Cause we have a lot going on in Birmingham

to try and encourage more cycling.

433

:

Uh, I realize that it's not possible

for everybody, but again, it's just

434

:

trying to encourage that thought.

435

:

Isn't it.

436

:

JENN: That's a great idea.

437

:

I have a little old electric

car and, um, I can get to work,

438

:

but then I have to plug it

439

:

into the wall.

440

:

and

441

:

trickle charge.

442

:

Before I'm able to drive home again.

443

:

Cause

444

:

otherwise I

445

:

won't get

446

:

home

447

:

and range.

448

:

Anxiety is real

449

:

but, um, yeah, it works.

450

:

ROB: yeah.

451

:

Well, it's for me, it's a slightly

different range of anxiety because

452

:

it's a very steep, uphill home.

453

:

it's anxiety of hill.

454

:

JENN: Hey, you get your workout at

the same time as getting to work.

455

:

That's excellent.

456

:

uh, that's good.

457

:

Well, it's been great having this

conversation and, uh, thank you so much

458

:

for your insight and your information.

459

:

Um, I've learned a

460

:

few.

461

:

things

462

:

ROB: Well, good.

463

:

I happy was of help.

464

:

Leekei: thank

465

:

you so much.

466

:

ROB: Thank you.

467

:

Bye bye.

468

:

LYNN: You've been listening to Karbon

sessions, a podcast with carbon

469

:

conversations for every day, with

everyone from everywhere in the world.

470

:

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sessions so YouTube can share your

471

:

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472

:

This is a great way for our community

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473

:

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474

:

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475

:

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476

:

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477

:

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478

:

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Almanac, go to the carbon almanac.org.

479

:

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and join us here again.

480

:

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Carbon Almanac

When it comes to the climate, we don’t need more marketing or anxiety. We need established facts and a plan for collective action.

The climate is the fundamental issue of our time, and now we face a critical decision. Whether to be optimistic or fatalistic, whether to profess skepticism or to take action. Yet it seems we can barely agree on what is really going on, let alone what needs to be done. We urgently need facts, not opinions. Insights, not statistics. And a shift from thinking about climate change as a “me” problem to a “we” problem.

The Carbon Almanac is a once-in-a-lifetime collaboration between hundreds of writers, researchers, thinkers, and illustrators that focuses on what we know, what has come before, and what might happen next. Drawing on over 1,000 data points, the book uses cartoons, quotes, illustrations, tables, histories, and articles to lay out carbon’s impact on our food system, ocean acidity, agriculture, energy, biodiversity, extreme weather events, the economy, human health, and best and worst-case scenarios. Visually engaging and built to share, The Carbon Almanac is the definitive source for facts and the basis for a global movement to fight climate change.

This isn’t what the oil companies, marketers, activists, or politicians want you to believe. This is what’s really happening, right now. Our planet is in trouble, and no one concerned group, corporation, country, or hemisphere can address this on its own. Self-interest only increases the problem. We are in this together. And it’s not too late to for concerted, collective action for change.