Episode 170

Stories, Indigenous Wisdom and Women Leadership for a Sustainable Future With Osprey Orielle Lake

Episode Summary: In this compelling episode, Leekei and Jenn welcomed Osprey Orielle Lake, an advocate for climate justice and the Founder of the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network. 

Osprey's work with underrepresented communities, policymakers, and coalitions aims to foster climate justice and a sustainable, equitable future. Highlights of our conversation include:

  • The power of worldviews: Through her book, "The Story is in Our Bones," Osprey discusses the critical role worldviews play in shaping our approach to climate change and conflicts, emphasizing the need for a collective shift towards understanding and reconciliation.
  • Indigenous and Women's leadership: Highlighting successful grassroots projects and indigenous wisdom in preserving biodiversity, Osprey underlines the indispensable role of indigenous peoples and women in leading environmental conservation and climate action efforts.
  • Integrating ancient wisdom: The discussion also covered the importance of blending traditional ecological knowledge with modern science to tackle environmental challenges effectively.
  • Action and hope: Osprey's narrative is a call to action for supporting indigenous rights, gender equality in environmental decision-making, and embracing community-led solutions for a sustainable future.

This episode is a beacon of hope and a guide for engaging in the climate movement, emphasizing that everyone has a role to play in creating a more sustainable and just world.

About Osprey Orielle Lake:

Founder and executive director of the Women's Earth and Climate Action Network (WECAN), Osprey Orielle Lake works internationally with grassroots, BIPOC and Indigenous leaders, policymakers, and diverse coalitions to build climate justice, resilient communities, and a just transition to a decentralized, democratized clean-energy future.

She sits on the executive committee for the Global Alliance for the Rights of Nature and on the steering committee for the Fossil Free Non-Proliferation Treaty. Osprey’s writing about climate justice, relationships with nature, women in leadership, and other topics has been featured in The Guardian, Earth Island Journal, The Ecologist, Ms. Magazine and many other publications.

She is the author of the award-winning book Uprisings for the Earth: Reconnecting Culture with Nature. Osprey holds an MA in Culture and Environmental Studies from Holy Names University in Oakland and lives in the San Francisco Bay Area on Coast Miwok lands.

Connect with Osprey on Facebook, Goodreads, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

To learn more, go to: https://ospreyoriellelake.earth

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Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang and Jenn Swanson.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 


From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 


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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.



Transcript
Speaker:

Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

Carbon Conversations for every day, with

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everyone, from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas.

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Perspectives, questions, and things we

can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

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Hi, I'm Jen.

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And hi, I'm Liki.

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And today we're joined by Osprey Orwell

Lake, joining us from California.

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Osprey is an author and activist

and the founder of the Women's

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Earth and Climate Action Network.

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And Osprey is involved globally.

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And works with grassroots leaders

from, I would say, less represented

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groups in society, policy makers, and

diverse coalitions to build climate

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justice, resilient communities, and

address transition to a decentralized,

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democratized, clean energy future.

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So thank you very much, Osprey,

for being here with us today.

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Well, it's really an honor to be here

and thank you for the great global

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work that you're doing around climate.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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In your book, in your new book,

the story is in our bones that will

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come out the end of this month.

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So probably around the time that

this episode will be published.

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You talk a lot about worldviews.

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And this is actually the

first part of your book.

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And then you keep talking about

worldview again and again.

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I believe that it is very, very important

because very often, this is what I

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think, that disagreement and conflicts

happen in the world and through history

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because people have different worldviews.

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And so to start off a conversation,

I'm curious to know what lens do

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you currently see the world through?

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Hmm.

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It's a wonderful question.

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Thank you.

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I think that, you know, one of the,

the reasons that I wanted to frame this

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book on climate from the perspective of

worldviews, as well as climate justice,

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is that in my work at the Women's Earth

and Climate Action Network, we can

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every day we work with very practical

matters from the Reforestation projects

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to forest protection as an, as an

example in the Amazon to doing fossil

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fuel resistance to stop dangerous

pipeline projects, fossil fuel projects

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and stop fossil fuel expansion is

international energy agency has said,

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or the IPCC reports are keep telling us.

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No more fossil fuel expansion.

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So every day we're very involved

at our organization with very hands

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on projects, hands on advocacy.

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We go to the U.

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N.

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Climate talks every year for over

a decade now, advocating for gender

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justice and indigenous rights

and phasing out fossil fuels.

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So there's a whole host of things we do

at our organization to meet the Immediate

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cause of doing all that we can around

the climate crisis from a climate justice

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perspective and lens the question really

became for me, how did we get into these

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interlocking crises, whether it's looking

at colonization or the type of economies

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that we have are very extractive.

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Capitalism is a very extractive

economy, whether we're talking about

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looking at world governments that

are still quite patriarchal, whether

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it's looking at racism and seeing,

you know, what is really upstream

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from these interlocking crises?

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How did we get here?

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And that really led me to thinking

about our world views, because,

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for instance, if tomorrow.

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We waved a wand and we

fixed the climate crisis.

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We're still degrading our environment.

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There's still social injustice.

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And from the perspective of

our organization, there really

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isn't a separation between

social and ecological justice.

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They are completely interwoven.

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And so that's what really

led me to want to explore.

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Both looking to the past and understanding

these patterns in society and where did

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they come from in these social ills and

the mindset that got us into these crises.

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And then how do we dismantle them?

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If they're very dangerous to then create

the world that I know we're all really

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longing for wanting to summon together,

which is, you know, very equitable and

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caring for the earth and one another.

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And I just would add one last piece,

which is that I think not only are we

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dismantling very harmful structures

that I mentioned of colonization

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and our current economic frameworks,

racism and other social injustices.

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I think that we're also needing to

reclaim and also rescue, if you will,

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some ancient worldviews that many of

us had in our lineages that are from

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pre colonial and pre patriarchal times.

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So it's also about renewing some of

the traditions that connect us to the

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land and the earth and the web of life.

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Because I think if we're not centered

on the fact that we're on a living

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earth, And we can connect to nature

and we can heal this disconnection

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from nature narrative that we find

ourselves in a modern society.

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It's extremely difficult to really

navigate how we're going to get from

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where we are now to where we want to go

if we continue to have this disconnect.

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From the very web of life

that we're trying to protect.

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And also if we cannot connect to

the earth, that sustains us all.

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So that really led to this conversation

about worldviews and how do we really

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connect to nature and each other in a

very different way than we are right now.

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I noticed that you used story

and you used poetry to weave all

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these topics together like a big.

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Tapestry.

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And I wondered, I mean, story is ancient

and built into our DNA as humans.

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And I wondered what brought you to

frame this quite, it's quite a big book.

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What, what brought you to, I have it here.

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What brought you to, uh,

frame it through story?

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Where did that come from for you?

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Well, in my experience, you know, just,

uh, You know, since childhood, and I

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think all of us, I mean, we're so impacted

by stories and what is the narrative

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and how we find meaning in the world.

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And we have our lived experience of what

we actually experienced the world to be.

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But how are we interpreting that and

how are we experiencing it is so often

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through the stories that we're told.

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Whether those are cultural stories or

religious stories or, uh, stories that

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come from, you know, just the, the, the

onslaught of media that we hear every day.

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All of those stories

come from a framework.

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All of those stories are based

in our belief systems, how we

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understand the world came into being.

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Or in my book, I also got very engaged

in the beginning section of the book

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about looking at origin stories, meaning

how do we know where do we come from

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and what are our agreements with?

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What are our agreements with the

original instructions that have

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come from many ancient peoples?

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And what are those codes of conduct

that we need to really look at and

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how are they embedded in stories?

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And so in contrast, we can see

that, you know, I made a distinction

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between some of the, uh, ways in which

Our current society is filled with

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narratives around racism and patriarchy

and colonization or in the sense of

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consumerism buying more and more and more.

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And so those narratives are built into

everyday activities, everyday stories.

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And how do we Then begin to interrogate

those and open those up and begin to

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open our minds to a very different view

that as an example, understands what

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does a decolonized framework look like?

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Uh, what does it mean to fill

our lives with other kinds of?

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learning and growing than buying

things to satisfy our need for,

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uh, uh, how we're going to grow and

how we're going to live our lives.

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And I think in many ways, there is a

great cavernous emptiness that people

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feel almost an orphanage from the

land and orphanage from community.

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And unfortunately, I think that over

time has built societies around the

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world that are trying to fill this great.

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Void this vacuum, this orphanage with

consumerism, which is hurting the earth,

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but also a lot of violence and othering

of other people to again, find identity,

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find purpose and meaning, and that we

really need to heal these wounds because

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it's extremely difficult to navigate

and transform the destruction of nature

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of this moment in time without also

attending to the wounds that got us here.

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And I think stories are an incredible way.

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Carrier of the knowledge that we need

to have to really find a path forward.

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I know that I was very moved by the

story of your mom, um, in the garden,

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the flowers being planted outside her

window so she could watch them bloom.

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What's your favorite story

that you told in this book?

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Oh, I don't know, I'm

terrible at favorites.

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I will, maybe I'll just share one

of the stories, um, because, you

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know, they all have different meaning

and, and are placed in the book to

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help illustrate different things.

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I mean, the book is, you know, Uh,

a book that is a combination of

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historical research and also technical

research around climate combined with

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science and indigenous knowledge.

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Also you know, memoir in some way,

because I think it's important that

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we also include ourselves in the

story of what is happening right now.

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Um, so yes, the story that you told

since I'll just maybe share a little

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bit more about that since you brought

it up is one in which it comes in one

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of the chapters around reciprocity.

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Okay.

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And what does that look like?

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And, um, when my mother was, uh, dying

of cancer, one of the things she had

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requested is that we garden together.

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And, uh, so we began to really think

about what kind of garden could we have

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that would generate healing for nature.

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And as we all know, there's a lot

of, um, um, challenge right now for

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pollinator species, bees, butterflies,

hummingbirds because of how much

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environmental degradation there is.

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And so we specifically built this

beautiful garden filled with so

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many different kinds of gorgeous

flowering plants that are really

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attractive for pollinator species.

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And so we did a lot of research

and combined different plants

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that really love one another.

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And we planted a garden in a

place that my mother had chosen.

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And, uh, you know, sure enough, we,

you know, in the spring there were

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all kinds of, uh, Including even

some bats that came at night, but

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there was bees and butterflies and

yeah, it was really very, very sweet.

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But what I had not anticipated is

that the place that she had chosen for

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this beautiful mosaic of flowers to

be, uh, was right in a position where

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when she was in her bed, which became

bedridden, she could see this garden.

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And I was just really moved by that, that

as she was passing to the spirit world,

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she was also seeing this beautiful gift.

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of life, um, being given back to earth.

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And so it was an example in the book of a

very personal experience of reciprocity.

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And then, of course, you know, the

chapter goes on to talking about in

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depth analyses around how, uh, we

really need to acquire a different

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view of how to live with nature as life

enhancers and how do we have a reciprocal

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relationship with the land versus just

taking and consuming and extracting.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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You mentioned the importance of.

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Indigenous wisdom in

combating climate change.

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Why is it important to know the knowledge,

the wisdom of Indigenous people?

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And can you share some examples

of effective Indigenous

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practice for sustainability?

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One of the most important things to

me right now is that we all really

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respect and honor Indigenous peoples.

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Eighty percent of all the biodiversity

left on Earth is in the lands

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and hands of Indigenous peoples.

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which is quite remarkable,

um, given that they're about 4

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percent of the world's population.

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And so, this clues us in that Indigenous

Peoples are living in a particular

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way and have a worldview that is

healthy with the natural world.

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So, when we're talking about our

forests, our rivers, the air,

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biodiversity, we're talking about

Indigenous Peoples immediately.

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and how they are respecting

their lands and maintaining their

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lands and their territories.

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So for me, when I think about, um, how we

address the urgency of the climate crisis,

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I immediately think about indigenous

peoples and learning from them and really

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sitting at the feet of their wisdom.

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And being very respectful because there

has been so much extraction, not just

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of their territories and land, but also

of their knowledge and information.

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So I also say this very humbly that,

you know, it is our time to really

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listen to Indigenous Peoples who have

been leading the way in how to live

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in harmony with the natural world

through their practices, through their

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traditional ecological knowledge, through

their deep, long standing relationship

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with place and where they live.

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So, some of this, you know, can

look like, first of all, wherever

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we live, who are the Indigenous

people upon whose lands we are?

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And for me in California, it's

really important to recognize

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that I'm living on stolen land.

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I live in Coast Miwok territories.

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And what does it mean for me to get

to know the Coast Miwok people here?

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Um, and how can I support their campaigns?

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How can I support their efforts

to, uh, to, to care for the lands

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that are their traditional lands?

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Um, so I think there's a lot to learn

about one acknowledging that many of us

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not living on our traditional homelands.

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We have our settlers somewhere else.

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And have not come from

the places that we live.

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So how can we be respectful, uh,

newcomers, really, and not bring

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with us a colonized framework

that we were all embedded in?

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And how do we begin to dismantle that

and have a different relationship

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with Indigenous peoples where we

live and learn how to be in their

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territories in a healthy way and

how they're treating the land?

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So I think that's like a beginning point.

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I think also that it's really important

to learn about the profound struggles

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Indigenous peoples are having because

colonization is not over and the attacks

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on the lands and territories and rights

of Indigenous people is far from over.

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So as an example, you know, when

we were talking about here in

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the United States, there's been a

lot of different, um, fossil fuel

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projects, whether it's expansion

or pipelines that are always going

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right through indigenous territories.

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And I think it's one of the

biggest fights that has really

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happened here in the United States.

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I'm sure people have heard about Standing

Rock, um, and other big pipeline fights

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here to stop fossil fuel expansion

have been led by indigenous peoples.

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And many times by indigenous women

who are often the backbone of these

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movements speaking out to protect

the water, to protect the land, to

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stop the climate crisis from further

harm through fossil fuel extraction.

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Um, this is also true in, you know,

we talk about forest protection

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in the Amazon as an example.

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It is indigenous peoples territories

where those ancient forests are,

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and they're often on the front lines

protecting their forest territories.

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And so it's really critical that

we also stand up for indigenous

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rights in the global South and the

right for, uh, indigenous peoples

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to protect their territories.

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And there are international laws,

as an example, the UN declaration

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on the rights of indigenous peoples,

which includes something called.

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Free, prior, informed consent, or

FPIC, which not all countries have

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adopted, but almost all countries

have, and yet they don't adhere to it.

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And it really gives Indigenous Peoples

the right to one Be consented about

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whether or not they want harmful

projects coming into their lands or not.

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And two, the right to say no if

they don't want that project.

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But very unfortunately, and our

organization often gets very involved in

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these struggles, that right to say no is

not respected by extractive industries, by

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the government, or financial institutions.

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So one way we can really respect

the protection of the land, The

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protection of biodiversity and water

and forest is by supporting indigenous

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campaigns and struggles to protect

their territories because they're

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the ones who are caring for them and

maintaining them in a healthy manner.

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And then I think just in terms of

traditional ecological knowledge, there's

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just so much to learn from indigenous

peoples around how To care for the land.

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And, you know, just one example from

California, there are ways in which,

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uh, indigenous people here for hundreds

and hundreds and hundreds of years.

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Had very localized burns in the

forest to keep the foliage down

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so that it wouldn't build up and

then have these huge forest fires.

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And of course, this has gotten

even worse because of the

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climate crisis and the drought.

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We're now, as we know, all of the

world, there's, you know, a fire starts

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and it creates a massive inferno.

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And some of that could be

maintained and cared for if we were.

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Practicing and listening to indigenous

peoples about these small burns that

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they were very careful to maintain.

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Um, and the last thing I'll say

because there's so much to talk about

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the brilliance of the true ecological

knowledge which we need to learn from

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is that most of the lands all over

the world, people consider to be wild.

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Or untouched wilderness for indigenous

peoples has been lands that they have

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very carefully maintained for millennium.

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And it looks wild and natural

because of the deep care and

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love and reciprocity indigenous

peoples have had with their lands.

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But it is also a way of how do

we become, um, life enhancers,

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keystone species in the ecosystem.

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As our ancestors and indigenous peoples

all over the world have done when we did

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live in a respectful way with nature.

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And I think we need to come back to these

practices and, you know, I would really

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suggest people reach out to indigenous

peoples and find out and learn from them,

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find out whose territories you're in.

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And also there's so much

gorgeous literature coming

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out from indigenous leaders.

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About traditional ecological knowledge

that you can directly learn from because I

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don't really like to speak for indigenous

people I don't think that that's my place.

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I do like to convey support for their

wisdom and knowledge and really center

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that in our work around the climate

crisis and environmental degradation

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and understanding different worldviews

of seeing an animate world and all the

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things that indigenous people have to

offer but Truly, I think the best thing

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to do is learn from Indigenous peoples

about their wisdom and knowledge.

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I don't know if you, um, know

that what happened here in Canada

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yesterday, in Nunavut, a very

historic document was signed.

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It's called a devolution document.

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Our Prime Minister was, uh, in

Nunavut and they have transferred

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the largest land transfer in Canadian

history back to the Inuit people,

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two million square kilometers.

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And this was a 25 year in the making

process that actually happened yesterday.

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So the Inuit people will now have

a final say over what happens with

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their land and their territory.

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And so, um, wow.

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That's like such fantastic news.

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It was a huge thing.

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That's enormous.

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And the whole land back

movement is really growing.

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Really excited about it.

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So thank you for sharing that great news.

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You know, lots of different,

uh, maybe not at that size, but

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land back exchange going on, uh,

throughout the North American region.

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And I think it's one of the most

important, exciting and inspiring

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movements that we can support right now.

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So thank you for that.

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Yeah, it was, uh, it goes right

along with what you were saying.

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And Yeah, my work that I do in my, in my

other work, we do a lot of reconciliation

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work and start all of our meetings with

territorial acknowledgements and, and

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really have a partnership with our local

Indigenous communities to try and learn

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and change our colonial language to

a non colonial language where we can.

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And yeah, we're still,

we're always learning.

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So that's, it's an important

piece of the story.

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Good.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

340

:

Thank you for sharing that great news.

341

:

I didn't get the name of the

treaty or the, or the laws.

342

:

There is a universal declaration of the

rights of Indigenous peoples through the

343

:

United Nations that has been established.

344

:

And within that, there are specific rights

called free, prior, and informed consent.

345

:

And When we look at international law,

we know that there are human rights,

346

:

but there are also indigenous rights.

347

:

The UN declaration on the

rights of indigenous people is

348

:

specific to indigenous peoples.

349

:

And they really fought for that

because correctly, they argued that

350

:

they have unique rights as indigenous

peoples that are connected to the

351

:

land and our collective rights, not

an individual right for a human,

352

:

but because of their worldview.

353

:

The right to this relationship

with the land, but also this

354

:

collective right as peoples, plural.

355

:

And so I think this is very, very

important, something that, you know, as

356

:

I say, many groups, not just ours, are

really working to support Indigenous

357

:

peoples and being able to implement

those rights and have them be respected.

358

:

And what about women?

359

:

Because it's very, very part of your work.

360

:

And so what can we learn from women

or what the world can learn from women

361

:

in And being more sustainable and

respecting the environment more, better.

362

:

What can we learn from us?

363

:

Yeah.

364

:

That's very, very, very key

to or components of the book.

365

:

Um, again, I did a really deep dive into

that, but also in terms of your question

366

:

more immediately about the role of women.

367

:

I think that some of the crises that we're

in really stem from gender inequality.

368

:

And the fact that we are in these not only

colonized, but patriarchal frameworks.

369

:

in societies around the world.

370

:

And we are suffering from that.

371

:

And so just giving some practical examples

for listeners, just so we're, we're not,

372

:

um, trying to cover the entire scope,

which is so massive when we talk about

373

:

gender inequality, but right now due to

gender inequality, Uh, women and girls

374

:

around the world are impacted first and

worst by the climate crisis because of

375

:

the fact of everything from them not

having, uh, the same economy to operate

376

:

from having voice, having mobility, the

fact that they care for their families.

377

:

So whenever there's any climate impacts,

women are going to feel those first.

378

:

They're also feeding their

families, collecting water.

379

:

Everything that has to do with our

lived experience is impacting women.

380

:

When, when we see the climate crisis

unfolding, but one of the untold

381

:

stories on the other hand is that

women are actually essential to

382

:

sustainability and climate solutions

and we can't get there without them.

383

:

And I have on my website, many,

many, many statistics around sharing

384

:

exactly why and how women are leading

the way in the climate crisis.

385

:

And I'll just give a few here.

386

:

Which is between 40 and 80 percent

of all household food production in

387

:

the global South is done by women.

388

:

There is so many areas that

are drought stricken now

389

:

because of the climate crisis.

390

:

So we need these water programs

to really ensure that people

391

:

have water during this time.

392

:

And the United Nations has shown many

studies that demonstrate that if you

393

:

don't involve women in these water

programs, they simply don't work.

394

:

Because women are doing

the water collecting.

395

:

They're the ones monitoring

the water levels.

396

:

They're the ones who are caring

for the water in the household.

397

:

And so you have to have women

engaged in these programs.

398

:

And then at, you know, we're looking at

whether it's grassroots movements, uh,

399

:

so many of the big resistance efforts

to uh, stopping forest degradation or

400

:

stopping fossil fuel extraction, you'll

see a lot of particularly indigenous

401

:

black and brown women right at the

head, stopping these projects that are

402

:

most impacting them because they're

in the areas that are considered

403

:

sacrifice zones or sacrifice areas.

404

:

So they're leading a lot of these

movements to stop harmful projects.

405

:

And then when we look.

406

:

At a country level, we know that when

women are in parliamentary positions,

407

:

uh, they often pass environmental

laws that are more high quality and

408

:

more caring for their societies.

409

:

We did see, even if we look at the COVID

19 pandemic at the height of it, there

410

:

were many different news articles showing

that countries that were led by women

411

:

did far better in dealing with the COVID

19 pandemic than countries led by men.

412

:

I would also add that I talk about this

in the book that, um, there's something

413

:

called the, uh, women's political

empowerment index, which is really talking

414

:

about how women are expressed in society.

415

:

If they're involved in social

movements, if they're involved

416

:

in politics, their, their general

voice in society, it's called the

417

:

women's political empowerment index.

418

:

And with just a one unit increase.

419

:

you get an 11.

420

:

51 percent decrease in carbon

emissions, which is huge.

421

:

And so I could go on and on, but this is

just to kind of give us a basic framing

422

:

about the incredible power that Women

have when they're given agency and voice,

423

:

and yet at the same time, we live in

these societies that are not recognizing

424

:

or uplifting the central role of women.

425

:

So as an example, just a month ago,

I was in Dubai for the COP 28 climate

426

:

talks, and there were 133 heads of

state there, but only 15 of those 133.

427

:

We're women.

428

:

And, you know, like I said, we could go

on and on about the role of women and what

429

:

is happening when they're in leadership

roles as well as gender diverse leaders.

430

:

And we see such an

incredible positive impact.

431

:

And yet they're under acknowledged,

underfunded, underrepresented,

432

:

underpaid, underpaid.

433

:

And this has really got to change.

434

:

This is a core to how we're going to

resolve a lot of these interlocking crises

435

:

from, you know, the economy, to racism,

to the climate crisis, to environmental

436

:

degradation, to peace building.

437

:

We need women at the table, and this

is a constant effort that we all

438

:

need to be collectively engaged in.

439

:

I was quite fascinated about the

information about the witch trials.

440

:

Um, that was, yeah, you, you went

in depth into a lot of that and

441

:

it was quite fascinating to read.

442

:

At the beginning of the book, I give the

example of something I learned from a

443

:

wonderful permaculture teacher, Pandora

Thomas, and she taught me, and then I did

444

:

some more research from the Ankhon people.

445

:

The, uh, the Sankova bird, um, which is

a mythological bird, and it's a beautiful

446

:

symbol of a bird who is facing backward,

White's feet are facing forward, and

447

:

that symbol of the feet going forward

and the head turning back, as it was

448

:

explained to me, is that we need to

pull from the past and look from the

449

:

past and understand the roots of Bye.

450

:

Bye.

451

:

How we got to where we stand

today while we move forward.

452

:

And so relating to, you're mentioning

the, the witch trials and what was

453

:

happening with the witch burnings

in Europe, it's part of a larger

454

:

section in the book of how did we

arrive at this gender inequality

455

:

and this degradation of the female.

456

:

And the casting down of the goddess

and how do we end up in a monotheistic

457

:

religion of one male supreme God?

458

:

And where did all these

concepts come from?

459

:

Going back to your comment about stories

and narrative and how important they are.

460

:

So how do we begin to dismantle

these ideas of women as second class

461

:

citizens and all of the work that

feminist movements have been engaged

462

:

in for a very long time to really

dismantle the systems of patriarchy.

463

:

And so the witch burnings are

a part of the manifestation of

464

:

that, but it's also part of the

current trauma that we still carry.

465

:

They were not that long ago.

466

:

And so we have intergenerational trauma

that we're also all carrying forward.

467

:

That is also needing to be, um,

unveiled, unpacked, surfaced into

468

:

the sunlight so that we can begin

to heal it and transform it.

469

:

Um, and that's part of, part of

this work of the feminist movement

470

:

and the need to really bring

about egalitarian societies again.

471

:

And I would also say that, you know, I

don't think it's about putting men down.

472

:

I think it's about lifting women up.

473

:

It's about balance.

474

:

It's about balance.

475

:

And do you, do you see light

at the end of this long road?

476

:

Absolutely.

477

:

Um, I think we're in a

credibly difficult time.

478

:

I think that, um, it's dark.

479

:

It's a dark time between the

climate crisis, biodiversity loss.

480

:

Wars that are going on the horrors

that are going on in Gaza, the,

481

:

um, pain and suffering in Sudan.

482

:

We could go on and on.

483

:

Um, you know, every year there are more

people dying from fossil fuel pollution.

484

:

So no, I don't think in any way

we should paint a pretty picture.

485

:

Of the dire circumstance we're in.

486

:

And, you know, like I said, I just came

back from, from the cop and it's, you

487

:

know, yes, there were some gains, but

oh my goodness, there was over 2, 400

488

:

oil lobbyists, fossil fuel lobbyists,

rather at the, the, the, at, at the

489

:

climate talks and we could go on and

on about the difficulty there and the

490

:

lack of representation Of frontline

communities, indigenous and black and

491

:

brown women specifically in the need

to hear from those most impacted, uh,

492

:

the extraction that is going on so that

that list could go on and the horrors

493

:

that are going on under the name of,

of white supremacy and colonization

494

:

and perpetuating business as usual.

495

:

But for me, within that context, I, I

think while one world is burning, another

496

:

world is being summoned and brought forth.

497

:

And that's what keeps us all going,

is conversations we're all having now.

498

:

We couldn't talk about

colonization before, or racism.

499

:

You know, even in the context that

we do now or patriarchy, there is now

500

:

more knowledge about how to have these

conversations than there were before.

501

:

It's not enough, not nearly

enough, but those dialogues are

502

:

happening in the public sphere much

more than they were in the past.

503

:

I also would like to share just

a couple of real term examples.

504

:

One is, um, I'm really honored to

be on the steering committee of

505

:

something called the fossil fuel.

506

:

Non proliferation treaty, which

is a parallel, um, or a mechanism

507

:

that can work in parallel with

the Paris Climate Agreement.

508

:

And it was originally initiated by a

wonderful woman named Zipporah Berman.

509

:

And basically it's based on the

nuclear non proliferation treaty.

510

:

And the idea is that the Paris Climate

Agreement is really based upon carbon

511

:

Emission reductions, which is very

important, but it doesn't deal strongly

512

:

at all enough with fossil fuels.

513

:

I mean, they finally brought fossil

fuels drug them on a center stage.

514

:

It caught 28 because of civil society

and climate vulnerable countries.

515

:

But now we have this mechanism that

12 countries have signed onto that

516

:

specifically deals with the mechanism

for how we can actually phase out

517

:

fossil fuels, which is the core source.

518

:

Of the climate crisis.

519

:

So, um, I'm very excited because

at COP28, Colombia, which is an oil

520

:

producing country, a fossil fuel

producing country, endorsed the

521

:

treaty, and it's gaining momentum.

522

:

So that's something like, okay, this

is a real tool and mechanism and

523

:

instrument we can get to where we need

to go in terms of fossil fuel phase out.

524

:

And then the other thing that I am

also excited about I would mention is

525

:

I'm on the executive committee of the

Global Alliance for Rights of Nature.

526

:

Uh, which is also gaining

a lot of momentum.

527

:

Even the UN secretary general

said earth jurisprudence is one of

528

:

the largest growing environmental

movements in the last year.

529

:

And basically this is the idea that

rivers and forests and mountains

530

:

and ecosystems can have rights.

531

:

And this is very important because

right now a forest or river can't be

532

:

represented in a court of law because

it doesn't have its own standing.

533

:

It can only go into court if

a human owns that property.

534

:

And can talk about it as a property owner.

535

:

And so rights of nature is really

profound because it turns our system

536

:

of law upside down and inside out.

537

:

And says, actually, no, we need to put

earth at the center of the conversation.

538

:

We need a system of law where rivers

and forests and mountains also have

539

:

rights like we have human rights.

540

:

And so rights of nature is a form

of earth jurisprudence to do this.

541

:

And it's not just an idea.

542

:

It's an idea that's

actually being implemented.

543

:

As an example, in 2008 in Ecuador, they

were the first country in the world to put

544

:

rights of nature into their constitution.

545

:

And since then, there have been cases

that one rivers have been protected

546

:

with rights of nature legislation.

547

:

Across the United States, there

have been local ordinances to

548

:

protect communities from fracking.

549

:

In Colombia, there has been, uh,

rights of nature legislation to

550

:

protect the Amazon rainforest.

551

:

One of the stories that really moves

me, um, and I also put this into the

552

:

book is, um, I was really honored

to go with some colleagues from an

553

:

organization called Movement Rights,

who initiated a fact finding mission

554

:

in New Zealand, where the Maori people

who fought over a hundred years.

555

:

To protect the Wanganui River were finally

successful not two years ago in working

556

:

out a settlement with the New Zealand

government, where there are custodians

557

:

and guardians, one from the government

and one from the Wanganui tribe to

558

:

protect the Wanganui River as a relative,

as an ancestor within the worldview of

559

:

the Maori people of seeing, again, the

animacy of nature, As alive and as our

560

:

relative and they have always viewed

the Wanganui River as their ancestor.

561

:

And it was so beautiful to be

there with them to learn about

562

:

how they view their river.

563

:

And now the river is protected

under a personhood law to

564

:

be treated like a person.

565

:

So no harms can come to that

river just like you couldn't

566

:

harm another human being.

567

:

And I was taken by some of the elders

from the Wanganui tribe to, to meet

568

:

their river in a really sacred place

and went there with them to meet the

569

:

river, hear some of their traditional

songs, and they shared with me one of

570

:

the sayings that they have, which is,

I am the river and the river is me.

571

:

I am the river and the river is me.

572

:

And really that deep recognition that,

you know, the waters in our body, the

573

:

waters that we drink, the waters that

we bathe in, are how we are alive.

574

:

We are inseparable and how to really

embody that and to live with that

575

:

understanding, I think is key to also

unwinding a lot of the crises we're in.

576

:

And so, you know, going back to your

question, I mean, the hope for me is

577

:

that, you know, we have the fossil fuel

nonproliferation treaty, we have rights

578

:

of nature, we're seeing an incredible,

beautiful resurgence of Indigenous

579

:

knowledge and Indigenous leadership

that needs to be respected and honored.

580

:

We're seeing, uh, women.

581

:

Really rising up in every sector

and taking on more leadership.

582

:

None of this is enough, but when

we see sort of this ecosystem of

583

:

activities, We see how there is a

future that we're building that is very

584

:

different than the one that we're in.

585

:

There's all kinds of conversations

around food sovereignty and food

586

:

security and localizing organic farming.

587

:

We're seeing many conversations about what

is an economic system that is not based on

588

:

GDP, not based on endless economic growth

models, as an example, you know, doughnut

589

:

economics or beyond growth models.

590

:

Or degrowth models, or I really love

the concepts coming out of indigenous

591

:

people from the global South around

when Vivier or Sumat Kausai that are

592

:

very holistic that are looking at

how do we, how do we grow creatively?

593

:

How do we grow community?

594

:

How do we grow relationships instead

of how do we grow by extracting

595

:

things to make more stuff?

596

:

What are other ways that we can grow?

597

:

So I think this is where I really have my

hope in the innovations and creativity.

598

:

Of, of, um, a very different

perspective of what our, our

599

:

future agenda could look like.

600

:

I think we have to struggle for it.

601

:

I think we have to fight for it.

602

:

I don't think it's going to come easy,

but we need to keep mapping it out and

603

:

discussing it and speaking it awake

and enacting it and advocating for it.

604

:

And we, we owe this to the earth and

we owe this to our current and future

605

:

generations to do everything that we can.

606

:

You were very inspiring.

607

:

Thank you.

608

:

I have, I have one more question,

and I know we're almost at time.

609

:

What is next for you, Osprey?

610

:

What's next for me is, uh, really

growing the garden that I'm in, because,

611

:

uh, the Wims Earth and Climate Action

Outbreak is quite Expansive and growing.

612

:

And so I mentioned some of our

programs earlier and I would really

613

:

like them to scale in different ways

and be more reachable to others.

614

:

And I just want to name one project

again, just because I think it's

615

:

always great to hear the stories.

616

:

Um, I'm really excited about a lot

of our work around the forests and.

617

:

There's a wonderful weekend coordinator

named Bima Namadabdu who is in the

618

:

Democratic Republic of Congo and we've

been working with her for about eight

619

:

years and we have been reforesting.

620

:

Land that had been completely decimated

through slash and burn techniques

621

:

and environmental degradation.

622

:

I mean land that like

there's no green on it.

623

:

And as we know, forests are absolutely

central to um, lessening the climate

624

:

crisis and sequestering carbon.

625

:

So what we've been doing is planting trees

and working with over 700 women now in

626

:

the region to reforest this damaged land.

627

:

But some really wonderful things

have happened in this process.

628

:

One is eight years later, about 25

percent of the trees are being used

629

:

in the communities for human use

for food and shelter and medicines

630

:

and the things that they need.

631

:

75 percent of the trees are there to

rewild the land and heal the land.

632

:

But in this process, 1.

633

:

6 million acres of old growth forests

in the Etombe region are now being

634

:

protected because the communities are

not going in there to get their needs.

635

:

And so we're protecting old growth

forests, reforesting damaged

636

:

land, and then also providing

forests for, for human use.

637

:

So it's a very integrative process.

638

:

And then one of the things that's

been really Inspiring for me is

639

:

that I didn't think so quickly this

would happen, but the trees we have

640

:

planted have brought back the rain.

641

:

And so the entire ecosystem and

biome in that region is changing.

642

:

And of course, nature is the best healer.

643

:

And so all these trees and companion

species are growing everywhere within

644

:

the area that we have been planting.

645

:

And so now it's sort of our nurseries and

Mother Earth's nurseries working together.

646

:

And it's been really quite something

to see the healing that can happen.

647

:

And as.

648

:

Some listeners might know the DR Congo

is one of the most violent places in

649

:

the world for women because of all the

conflict and this has brought them a lot

650

:

of safety because they're not wandering

off collecting wood or medicines,

651

:

their trees are local, so it's a way

for the women to be more protected,

652

:

um, have more education and more time

to themselves and also changing their

653

:

status in their communities because

suddenly they're the ones because

654

:

they're the ones getting funded.

655

:

They're the ones doing the work.

656

:

They're the ones who are you.

657

:

In charge of this project and they're

being brought to different conferences to

658

:

speak about their victories and they're

being really centered as the leaders.

659

:

Um, it's been really beautiful to see

the social change in the communities and

660

:

the healing that the women tell me are

going on because of the role that they're

661

:

now playing in, in bringing so much

strength and change to their community.

662

:

So it's just another example of,

you know, how we can view change.

663

:

And why we need to really keep

growing, uh, women's leadership.

664

:

It's beautiful.

665

:

Thank you.

666

:

This has been fascinating.

667

:

Thank you so much for having

me here to join, uh, you both.

668

:

And I'm really excited to learn

about that work that you're doing,

669

:

because I do think that education.

670

:

And sharing right now is really

important because those of us who are

671

:

really dialed in are very focused on

these topics and very deep into the

672

:

research and the conferences we attend.

673

:

But I know it's so important that we

reach out and engage everyone because

674

:

everyone can do something and everyone

needs to do something because the window

675

:

of time we have is very short and we

need everyone on board and to find

676

:

their passion and their entry point.

677

:

And, and jump in because it really is

a time for all of us to get involved.

678

:

And everyone lives on planet Earth.

679

:

So it's about us, everybody.

680

:

Well said.

681

:

Thank you very much, Osprey.

682

:

Thank you.

683

:

You've been listening to Carbon

Sessions, a podcast with carbon

684

:

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everyone from everywhere in the world.

685

:

We'd love you to join the Carbon

Sessions so you too can share your

686

:

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687

:

This is a great way for our community

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688

:

experiences, connect and take action.

689

:

If you want to add your voice to the

conversation, go to the carbonalmanac.

690

:

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691

:

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692

:

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693

:

For more information, to sign up for

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694

:

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696

:

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697

:

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Carbon Almanac

When it comes to the climate, we don’t need more marketing or anxiety. We need established facts and a plan for collective action.

The climate is the fundamental issue of our time, and now we face a critical decision. Whether to be optimistic or fatalistic, whether to profess skepticism or to take action. Yet it seems we can barely agree on what is really going on, let alone what needs to be done. We urgently need facts, not opinions. Insights, not statistics. And a shift from thinking about climate change as a “me” problem to a “we” problem.

The Carbon Almanac is a once-in-a-lifetime collaboration between hundreds of writers, researchers, thinkers, and illustrators that focuses on what we know, what has come before, and what might happen next. Drawing on over 1,000 data points, the book uses cartoons, quotes, illustrations, tables, histories, and articles to lay out carbon’s impact on our food system, ocean acidity, agriculture, energy, biodiversity, extreme weather events, the economy, human health, and best and worst-case scenarios. Visually engaging and built to share, The Carbon Almanac is the definitive source for facts and the basis for a global movement to fight climate change.

This isn’t what the oil companies, marketers, activists, or politicians want you to believe. This is what’s really happening, right now. Our planet is in trouble, and no one concerned group, corporation, country, or hemisphere can address this on its own. Self-interest only increases the problem. We are in this together. And it’s not too late to for concerted, collective action for change.